The Brexit Arms

[BrexitArmsLandlady]

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Thought I'd dust off the optics & open the bar for the festive period

If any of the the old crowd are still around, then do pop in for a Christmas catch up & join me in toasting the end of the beginning!

Onward! To Brexit!

🍷 🥃 🍸 🍹 🍾 🥂 🍻 🍺

Some people voted one way or another on a whim, following the herd, virtue signalling, to send "them" a message. In my part of the subculture, an "undecided" would have been much more likely to vote remain if wanting to do what others seem to value (i know hardly any vocal leavers, because there's such an assumption that good people, wise people, people"like us" did the Right Thing and voted remain). I can see there are other bits of the culture where the assumptions swung the other way, and you would not want to admit to wanting to stay in the EU.

Truly, I'm a splinters in bum fence sitter about it all. I did a lot of listening. I had close friends and family vote each way, and i acknowledge and appreciate their differing motivations. There are merits in different viewpoints; it'sa question of what lens you view which bits of evidence through. I wonder how differently it'd all feel if labour had won last summer (i.e. If we were getting lexit) - i do think a lot of the agony might be bound up in total horror that it's conservatives steering the ship at the moment. But i console myself that civil servants are quietly adjusting the rudder in the background. But yes, i get it - i hear the anxiety. I just don't think there's anything I can do to alleviate it. (just like if people are terrified about north Korea and the possibility of nuclear war. It might happen or it might not, because if my brain has latched onto it as the major cause of fear, there's nothing anyone can do to dislodge it)

What a performance that was yesterday! Yes, what's the matter with you leavers - getting so nasty. Like you've been on the Stella.

Well done Mother.

Well done Mummy

@SoulStew

Get some answers to basic questions which aren't irrational, factually incorrect or internally inconsistent and we have grounds for a debate.

After 2 years of listening there not a single good reason to leave the EU that I have come across. Not one.

The only discomfort I have with the EU actually originated from Remain friend of mine in respect of the Commission - and is easily dealt with.

So the anger I believe we all feel is the quasi certainty of this good country heading into a brick wall because ... no reason.

That's it, you see, Olivia - if you definitely cannot imagine any reason why any sane person might have wanted to leave the EU, there's no point trying to talk about it with you, is there?

Olivia - then you must contain your own anger. It's not OK to lecture and browbeat everyone because you're angry.

Folk don't want to engage with your anger.

ommmward it's too late now to be arguing over why people voted leave, that's happened.

Last night I was trying to understand why Leave voters are so convinced it's all going to be fine when it becomes clearer by the day that some of the very basic issues are incompatible.

How do you square no border in NI with WTO?

Or how do you justify paying for unrestricted access to the SM and remaining fully aligned with the EU rules as being anything other than remaining under a different badge?

@ommmward

Wrong. See my post. Get rational, cogent and internally consistent arguments and we have the basis for a debate.

How many times have we asked questions - like @Bearbehind just now - and received crickets back? Or worse: nonsense from @mummmy2017 ?

But no leaver wants a debate with you OliviaD68 that’s the thing you’re not getting.
This isn’t a debating thread anyway, it never was, It’s more chit chat.
If you want debate, why don’t you start your own thread?

surfer you know full well no Leaver is going to answer any questions on any thread, simply because they haven't thought about them and do not have any answers.

I mainly keep quiet on these threads nowadays because I agree, it's pretty much pointless posting, but I popped back yesterday to see if things had moved on at all. Sadly they haven't, if anything, the denial and burying heads in the sand is getting worse.

I do wonder when reality is going to bite, because it has to in the very near future. There is no alternative because what Leavers generally want, cannot happen.

I'm not convinced it's all going to be fine. I hope it's all going to be fine. I don't know that it IS going to be.

Some media sources tell me firmly that it's all a disaster. Some tell me it's not great now, but it will be ok. Some tell me it's all in hand, fine now, will be fine in future.

My own professional experience of dealing with EU officialdom is that everything is impossible, unthinkable, kicked onto the long grass, sent around the houses. Abd then at the last second of the last minute of the eleventh hour, some eminently rational and mutually agreeable solution is found (usually, in my experience, something my team suggested six months ago...). That seems to be the pattern of these negotiations too, so i can't get too het up about it - it's a systemic and cultural difference in how some eu and UK institutions seem to function.

Honestly, I'm all a bit meh about it at the moment. At the "it'll probably come out in the wash" end of the scale, without really feeling that getting anxious angry or upset about details on the way is going to gain anyone anything except a blood pressure problem...

How do you ‘chit chit’ about a political issue without it becoming a debate. When you talk about politics you naturally share ideas and views. That is debate. Chit chit is discussing Vera from no 47s new Kitchen. Or the arrival of unicorns...

But that’s all too sensible for the remainers on here ommmward - they want arguments and drama. I don’t understand why they’re like that, because most people ( myself included ) think the same way you do.

ommmward thank you for your reply. I understand your point about last minute deals etc, but the issue now is that the UKs Brexit goals just don't work together.

TM has agreed there will be no hard border in NI and we will stay fully aligned to EU rules which affect NI and SM.

How can that possibly ever be compatible with leaving the SM?

I genuinely see no other solution than us paying for the access we have now, labelling it as something else so we can say we've left, and having no say in future rules.

If you can see an alternative, I'd love to hear it.

@Bearbehind

Good summary.

There is also lack of acknowledgment as to what the referendum has done to the £, increased racial hatred, UK standing abroad etc. I don’t think, with Brexit there will be a point where people feel they have arrived at their chosen destination and say “yes, this is what I wanted, this is it”. It will be a never ending untangling

I've stopped posting as I was sickened by a disablist troll. I'd walk away from such abuse in Real Life and have chosen to do so on this board. Thankfully it was swiftly deleted by MNHQ but it still hurts to see that people can bandy about disablist language and not even flinch when it's been pointed out to them that they're using offensive language.

I lurk from time to time but it's same shit, different day round here.

michael, I'm not condoning any disabilist posts, but it's a pretty poor excuse for not engaging in these threads when you're clearly still posting on them

The reality is you simply don't have any answers, like your fellow Leavers on here.

It's incredibly tiresome hearing every excuse under the sun why Leavers don't answer questions.

All it does is prove they literally don't have a clue how these incompatible issues can be addressed.

Bear this is the first post I've made in eons; I've said upthread I lurk occasionally but have chosen not to engage anymore, and felt my reason for doing so was important to mention.
My brother requires 24 hour care due to severe disability, my son and myself have disabilities. So yes, I've felt hurt seeing disablist language being bandied around.

I'm quite happily discussing Brexit in the real world, where the people I surround myself with don't happen to be disablist twats.

Here's your humphy wee face back It suits you better.

MichaelFabricantsHair don’t get sucked back in, it’s what they want. Their M.O is to insult so we answer back < yawn >
Just ignore them.

Are, so all Remainers that post on here are 'disabilist twats' now are they?

The lengths people are going to to avoid discussing the realities of Brexit are quite amazing.

& on that note I’m outta here.
Regroup next March Leavers for a celebration drink! 🍾🍾🍾🍾

You’ll be back before then Surfer. As always.

surfer I'm not insulting anyone, I'm pointing out the fact that we get every single excuse under the sun as reasons why Leavers can't answer and questions/ engage in discussions, when the reality is, you have no idea and, in your case, don't care anyway.

I suspect your interest may rise when you realise that you've been sold a pup and we are actually going to remain in the EU in all but name because there's no other solution; still paying for access, still beholden to their rules just without a say in them.