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Original poster

The Brexit Arms

999 replies

BrexitArmsLandlady · 08/12/2017 21:45

🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧

Thought I'd dust off the optics & open the bar for the festive period Xmas Smile

If any of the the old crowd are still around, then do pop in for a Christmas catch up & join me in toasting the end of the beginning!

Onward! To Brexit!

🍷 🥃 🍸 🍹 🍾 🥂 🍻 🍺 Gin

OP posts:
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17
Inkanta · 09/01/2018 19:31

Olivia I admire your tenacity and skills of persuasion, and have read your coercive posts on other threads, but I voted leave and I continue to want the government to get on with it - and get us out.

OliviaD68 · 09/01/2018 19:35

@InfiniteSheldon

our democracy doesn't give do overs.

Sure it does. Every democracy can change its mind. Chief Dotard David Davis said so...

It was a very clear cut question with over a million people more voting out than in.

That was then. This is now.

I can see you truly believe that a second referendum would get you the answer you want. I have to disagree it really wouldn't and it would be a death knell for democracy.

Yep. Would be great for democracy. And if you're so sure I'm wrong then you won't mind if a second ref takes place.

We already struggle to get the under 25's to vote they will give up entirely of we make such a mockery of it.

Well, my view is a bit different. And if you believe the analysis of the BBC, many Leavers have passed away and more youngsters can now vote. The more we wait the more the Remain population grows.

So best to do it quickly right?

The Brexit Arms
OliviaD68 · 09/01/2018 19:37

@Inkanta

That is your choice. And mine is mine.

I choose prosperity and inclusion. It is my right.

You choose -in my view - destitution and isolation. It is your right.

These differences of opinion are what make a democracy.

Bearbehind · 09/01/2018 19:38

all the financial passport fears were just more Project Fear crap

I'm interested to hear the basis for that comment infinite

From what I've read the EU has no intention whatsoever of allowing passporting to continue in its current form once we are out of the EU.

Why would it?

Why would a third country have these rights when there are other EU countries falling over themselves to take on the role London currently plays?

InfiniteSheldon · 09/01/2018 19:39

Seriously read that back to yourself it's full of contradictions and sneering nonsense.

Bearbehind · 09/01/2018 19:42

It's really not infinite

Please could you explain why you think all the financial passport fears were just more Project Fear crap?

OliviaD68 · 09/01/2018 19:43

@Bearbehind

Well it's either you or I. Not sure. Also I don't know what contradiction is being referred to. It would be nice to get details for once.

OliviaD68 · 09/01/2018 19:45

@InfiniteSheldon

I asked the same question or more precisely indicated you were wrong. If you believe your are correct, where do you get this passporting good news from?

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 09/01/2018 19:46

Sneering nonsense is the modus operandi of the goady posters.
Arrogance & a supercilious attitude with an overly inflated ego, too.

Thankfully they tend to stick to the anti-Brexit thread but they do seem to love having little shouty foot-stampy moments every so often & like all stroppy toddlers they actively seek out people to goad.

Sigh.

OliviaD68 · 09/01/2018 19:48

@FaithHopeCharityDesperation

Well let's talk then. What nonsense?

Can we start with the passporting question then?

Or that trade talks are starting? Chief Dotard Davis seems to believe so ...

Bearbehind · 09/01/2018 19:49

faith, could you point out where anyone has been sneering or goady?

Asking a question is neither of those things.

The only MO round here is that of Leavers who try and detract from the fact they can't back up comments by saying Remainers are sneering and goady!

Moussemoose · 09/01/2018 19:54

"Unfortunately our democracy doesn't give do overs"

Would it be sneering to point out this is just wrong.

Totally wrong.

Moussemoose · 09/01/2018 19:57

"It's unprecedented in history"

Yep just us and Saudi with no written constitution. Makes me so proud to be British. It's like an exclusive little club.

Moussemoose · 09/01/2018 19:57

"It's unprecedented in history"

Yep just us and Saudi with no written constitution. Makes me so proud to be British. It's like an exclusive little club.

Moussemoose · 09/01/2018 20:01

"For me the EU is fundamentally undemocratic as I never voted to join it never would voted to join it at the moment the country was given a choice on voting with a to join the federal state of Europe it said no"

That doesn't make the EU undemocratic that makes the UK undemocratic. The parliamentary democracy you love so much pushed through EU legislation.

This is an argument for checks and balances and constitutional reform NOT for leaving the EU.

OliviaD68 · 09/01/2018 20:02

@Moussemoose

Not quite right. You know the UK has a constitution. I agree it's not codified.

I do find accusations of the EU not being democratic a but rich coming from Brits though. All the stuff above I mentioned plus:

  • May trying to get Henry VIII powers
-May threatening to dissolve the Lords
  • May wanting to stuff the Lords with Tory cronies to get the Withdrawal Bill through
-Not publishing the impact assessments. And lying about them repeatedly

How very democratic.

OliviaD68 · 09/01/2018 20:03

@Moussemoose

Good last point. Never had thought about it that way.

Inkanta · 09/01/2018 20:03

"You choose - in my view - destitution and isolation. It is your right."

Destitution and isolation!

Wow, sounds like U2 lyrics Smile

Moussemoose · 09/01/2018 20:08

Yes - I said written constitution. No formal written constitution - just us and Saudi.

"An elective dictatorship" Quentin Hogg famously said of the UK. We do need constitutional reform desperately, while the EU has checks and balances to ensure democracy.

Calling the EU "undemocratic" while living in the glass house of UK parliamentary democracy is ludicrous.

Sorry if I am being patronising.

(Actually I'm not sorry)

Doubletrouble99 · 09/01/2018 20:09

Israel and New Zealand don't have a 'written' constitution like the UK.

OliviaD68 · 09/01/2018 20:11

@Moussemoose

Agreed.

There is one aspect of the EU I don't like which is the role of the Commission. It's the only body that can introduce legislation to the EP. That feels limiting. An easy fix though and far less democratically problematic than the UK, I fully agree.

OliviaD68 · 09/01/2018 20:13

@InfiniteSheldon

I believe @BearBehind asked you a question?

Moussemoose · 09/01/2018 20:19

Israeli "Basic Laws" are considered by some to form a partially written constitution. It is not as uncodified as the UK.

NZ - I didn't know that! You learn something every day. Thanks for pointing it out.

The point remains the UK system is a shambles - hence the confusion we face at the moment. Throwing the accusation of lack of democracy is just embarrassing.

OliviaD68 · 09/01/2018 20:23

I'm still curious to hear about financial services passports from @FaithHopeCharityDesperation and @InfiniteSheldon as requested from @Bearbehind.

Or that trade talks are starting now.

Moussemoose · 09/01/2018 20:26

*OliviaD68
*
An easy fix - I think initially it was felt if legislation could be proposed by any of the bodies it might become unworkable.

It is common to restrict where legislation can originate and is not considered undemocratic (to answer a question before it is asked) in the US legislation concerning raising revenue can only be proposed by the House of Representatives.