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Brexit

Westministenders: Happy Xmas (War is Over) - if only

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/12/2017 14:00

When is lying not lying. When you can get enough of your mates to agree it is not lying.

And so we have David Davis, who has made two statements to parliament which deliberately contradict each other and must constitute some sort of lie to parliament at some point however you cut it.

Will the Speaker risk the wrath of his party to uphold democratic values? We watch carefully.

Davis also reveals and exposes May too though. May one way or another is complicit in Davis’s lie, either through not doing her job in reading the reports or by protecting Davis when she knew the reports did not exist. This is gross misconduct in her inability to ensure her staff do their bloody jobs. All so she can keep her own job.

This is where whistleblowers in other institutions pop up.

It has also become apparent that May has not had THE conversation with the Cabinet over what shape Brexit should take. After 18months.
Why not? Is she incapable of consensus building or is she just incompetent?

And then we have the DUP seemingly not being properly being involved in the wording of the all important document.

Vote Leave’s Oliver Norgrove is perfectly right in saying that Hard Brexit is all but dead. Don’t let that make you feel happier. Hard Brexiteers know that there only option now, is No Deal and that’s what they will try and pursue.

There is no deal until everything is settled. Right now, nothing is settled, not even what the UK want out of Brexit, never mind the EU position.

May might well have blown the only opportunity for a deal too, because of her failure over NI and the DUP. Where does she go from here? The idea that she will stand up to anyone, is ludicrous given her track record.

We might all wish we could John Lennon's song was apt when it comes to this Christmas and Brexit, it seems the war for our future post Brexit, it seems it is only just starting.

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 13/12/2017 14:33

Jessica Elgot‏Verified account
@jessicaelgot

Tory whips make legal threat to rebels before crucial Brexit vote

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/13/david-davis-promises-parliamentary-vote-eu-divorce-deal-tory-rebels?CMP=share_btn_tw

David Allen Green‏
@davidallengreen
The "mutineers" are mainly lawyers (and good ones).

To threaten them with half-baked legal threats is especially daft.

woman11017 · 13/12/2017 14:38

That legal threat and other threats sound familiar. pain
They've rather overplayed their hand all the threatening brexitors haven't they?

Yes you're probably right Patty

Even if this amendment falls, what great speeches by Clarke and Grieve.
Seeing this proper debate of at least some aspects of this is a at least seeing our democracy in practice.
(For the last time?)

LurkingHusband · 13/12/2017 14:41

PM May needs to explain to the people in her governing coalition

POW

nice dig, and a reminder that this is what the UK has, even if we don't recall.

The EU should insist on referring to the UKs informal coalition government in every statement. After all it's technically true. And we know how wedded to the truth Brexiteers are.

lalalonglegs · 13/12/2017 14:42

Hasenstein - my understanding is that it is a two-fold issue (a) technically we won't be part of the CU and SM - we will just be abiding by all the rules and unable to influence them - so Brexiteers can say that we have left the EU Hmm (b) regulatory alignment is the worst case scenario and of course our government will use its combined talent and resourcefulness to negotiate a much better deal which will give the UK complete freedom while maintaining the full benefits of EU membership - even bigger Hmm (I don't think it's you that is a bit thick...).

Peregrina · 13/12/2017 14:44

Once again May appears to be lying. I don't recall any referendum on leaving the EEA. Since she lost her majority, I would suggest that a lot of the general public don't agree that this is what they voted for either.

LurkingHusband · 13/12/2017 14:50

Tory whips make legal threat to rebels before crucial Brexit vote

Any legal eagles here care to comment on parliametary privilege, and whether a UK court would consider parliamentary proceedings ?

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 13/12/2017 14:51

From the Guardian:

Dominic Grieve: We have run out of road
EU Withdrawal Bill

House of Commons

Parliament

Conservative former attorney general Dominic Grieve says his intention is to "improve difficult legislation" which he recognises the government has to carry out.

He says earlier in the bill's passage the government brought forward some sensible compromises but in this case, "we have run out of road - and all rational discourse starts to evaporate".

This has led to "confrontation" in which it is "suggested the underlying purpose is sabotage, followed by hurling of public abuse" including by his party colleagues, he tells the House.

Legislation should not be the process of imposing the majority will but "the process by which we achieve consent", he adds.

Also

PARLY‏
@ParlyApp
When this debate started the government had a notion that it was possible to pull out of the EU using the Royal Prerogative says Grieve. #EUWithdrawalBill
As the Miller case showed there will be legal uncertainty if anything other than a statute is used to take us out of the EU says Grieve. #EUWithdrawalBill

woman11017 · 13/12/2017 14:53

May's also said Hammond didn't insult the disabled. Truth, the first casualty.
Grieve is threatening to vote against clause 9 too.

Fantastic speech by him. Excellent work.

lalalonglegs · 13/12/2017 14:58

Grieve sounds confident that he has the votes...

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 13/12/2017 14:58

Kate McCann
@KateEMcCann
Quite a thing to watch in the Commons right now. Tory after Tory intervening on Grieve as he accuses the Government of ignoring him. Labour MPs watching on in virtual silence.

woman11017 · 13/12/2017 15:24

@Reform_campaign
PARLIAMENT: In addition to the Tory signatories (below) to Amendment 7 to give Parliament meaningful vote on Brexit deal, at least two more Tory MPs have spoken apparently in support: Vicky Ford and Oliver Heald.

Knocks out 2 of the 7 labour peculiars?

woman11017 · 13/12/2017 15:28

Grieve is storming it.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 13/12/2017 15:41

Antoinette Sandbach rebuked her Conservative colleagues for being so noisy whilst the SNP MP Phillipa Whitford was talking. I've not come across her before but maybe have cheered when she said it

woman11017 · 13/12/2017 15:42

Yep pain woman speaking.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 13/12/2017 15:43

Oh she's a mutineer! Just recognised her face

ElenaGreco123 · 13/12/2017 16:04

Lurking I think the legal threats refer to what the rebels say about the whips' conduct to the press, not how they vote.

LurkingHusband · 13/12/2017 16:06

Lurking I think the legal threats refer to what the rebels say about the whips' conduct to the press, not how they vote.

So what law? Can't be about not telling the truth, since that's gone by the bye.

mrsreynolds · 13/12/2017 16:12

When is the vote?

ElenaGreco123 · 13/12/2017 16:20

Slander I suppose. Whips probably do not see themselves as bullies. I mean just think of the self-righteous Chris Heaton-Harris.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 13/12/2017 16:26

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Carole Cadwalladr
Carole Cadwalladr
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NEW: UKIP has refused to co-operate with UK information commissioner re use of data in targeting voters. V. interesting. Why are they refusing to do this voluntarily?? ICO has now had to invoke "statutory powers" to compel evidence
iconewsblog.org.uk/2017/12/13/update-on-ico-investigation-into-data-analytics-for-political-purposes/#more-3192

LurkingHusband · 13/12/2017 16:37

Slander I suppose. Whips probably do not see themselves as bullies

Truth is a defence to slander. And I care little for how whips see themselves, poor misunderstood creatures they are.

ElenaGreco123 · 13/12/2017 16:42

One of the woman MPs was said to have been reduced to tears. So I suppose it went something like this: It is your word against mine! And a woman's statement in court is worth one quarter of a man's. Oops, wrong country / century.

Sheridan90 · 13/12/2017 16:51

I came across this interactive diagram last week BrexitOptions.co.uk/diagram.html — 18 months too late, of course. It maps out some Brexit scenarios. If everyone had a better idea what the heck the referendum was about, we might not be in this mess.

woman11017 · 13/12/2017 17:06

"Amendment 7 emasculates" D Raab. Look on your forehead, mate.

Touring London now.

Westministenders: Happy Xmas (War is Over) - if only
woman11017 · 13/12/2017 17:08

Ooh it's catching.

Faisal Islam‏*@faisalislam*
Sir Oliver Heald, not your typical rebel asks Raab why Government needs an “unrestrained power...it seems wrong”