Westministenders: Happy Xmas (War is Over) - if only

[RedToothBrush]

When is lying not lying. When you can get enough of your mates to agree it is not lying.

And so we have David Davis, who has made two statements to parliament which deliberately contradict each other and must constitute some sort of lie to parliament at some point however you cut it.

Will the Speaker risk the wrath of his party to uphold democratic values? We watch carefully.

Davis also reveals and exposes May too though. May one way or another is complicit in Davis’s lie, either through not doing her job in reading the reports or by protecting Davis when she knew the reports did not exist. This is gross misconduct in her inability to ensure her staff do their bloody jobs. All so she can keep her own job.

This is where whistleblowers in other institutions pop up.

It has also become apparent that May has not had THE conversation with the Cabinet over what shape Brexit should take. After 18months.
Why not? Is she incapable of consensus building or is she just incompetent?

And then we have the DUP seemingly not being properly being involved in the wording of the all important document.

Vote Leave’s Oliver Norgrove is perfectly right in saying that Hard Brexit is all but dead. Don’t let that make you feel happier. Hard Brexiteers know that there only option now, is No Deal and that’s what they will try and pursue.

There is no deal until everything is settled. Right now, nothing is settled, not even what the UK want out of Brexit, never mind the EU position.

May might well have blown the only opportunity for a deal too, because of her failure over NI and the DUP. Where does she go from here? The idea that she will stand up to anyone, is ludicrous given her track record.

We might all wish we could John Lennon's song was apt when it comes to this Christmas and Brexit, it seems the war for our future post Brexit, it seems it is only just starting.

Fucking hell.
Torygraph this morning - will c&p it all in case of paywall.

"A row hasbroken out between Downing Street and senior Eurosceptics over claims Theresa May’s aides told Boris Johnson and Michael Gove that the key concession used to seal Friday’s deal with Europe was “meaningless” and “not binding”.
A senior Eurosceptic with knowledge of the discussions involving Cabinet ministers, including Mr Johnson and Mr Gove, told The Telegraph that No 10 had said a commitment to “full alignment” between the UK and the EU “doesn’t mean anything in EU law”."
"A separate source confirmed that a specific Cabinet minister had been told by No 10 aides that the provision was “meaningless” and was simply included to secure Ireland’s approval for the document."
"The claims are likely to infuriate the Irish government and threaten to unravel the apparent Cabinet consensus over the deal ahead of the key meeting of the European Council this week, at which EU leaders will be asked to confirm that negotiations can now proceed to trade talks.
They also come at a time insiders admit that relations with Eurosceptics are “delicate”, and that the Government is separately braced for rows with pro-Europe MPs over the withdrawal legislation on Tuesday.
On Saturday night, a Downing Street spokesman said: “We do not recognise this account of conversations.”
A clause in Friday’s agreement pledging “full alignment” between the UK and the EU if no alternative deal is reached was key to signing Ireland up to the deal after Dublin repeatedly warned it would not accept a hard border with Northern Ireland."
"Leo Varadkar, the Irish prime minister, subsequently said he believed the EU was “funnelling” Brexit talks into a situation where the whole of the UK would “remain in alignment” with the bloc over many regulations.
A leaked version of the phrase prompted the Democratic Unionist Party to block an earlier deal 
on Monday, over fears that only Northern Ireland’s rules would converge with the EU regulations in place in Ireland. They later agreed to a revised document which made clear that the “full alignment” would apply to the UK as a whole."

I suppose the question is, does May really believe that "full alignment" is meaningless, or are Brexiteers lying about that to throw a spanner in the sufficient progress works.

Repeat after me:

They want no deal.

They never wanted a deal.

They will do anything to prevent a deal.

Is May one of the them? If not, she should sack them now.

They will do anything to prevent a deal.
I am still processing it as oprah would say.
Anyone got top tips on doing that?

That article sums up my fears about this week's agreement. They don't give a shit about Ireland - they never did so it is no surprise. May is so out if her depth that even of she acted as an 'honest agent' in these talks the hardline Brexiteers will do whatever they have to to get their own way. I don't think any of the hardliners or the DUP are particularly worried about preserving the GFA. I am truly worried about the future .

I don’t think she is one of them but has such little clout or power that she has to appease them to keep the party and herself in number 10. If she were one of them, she wouldn’t have proposed this in the first place I think. But given that she’s continually been held hostage to other people’s positions, I’m not hopeful that she’ll suddenly find the guts to stand up to them and will therefore not face down this rhetoric effectively and jeopardise any possibility of moving on to the next stage.

(Disclaimer: could be totally wrong!)

David Allen Green @ davidallengreen
"Red, white and blue Brexit" finally revealed.

It would be worse if she went, I think? We’d have an even less restrained, hardcore no-dealer who would be fine with just ripping up what’s in the national interests
to further their own/Steve Bannon’s et al, particularly as no one in the media is holding them accountable.

The Times:

Michael Gove and Boris Johnson will insist that Theresa May presses for a hard Brexit when Britain begins trade negotiations with Brussels — as payback for their support for her deal last week.

In a crucial breakthrough for the Brexiteers, the environment and foreign secretaries have won support from Gavin Williamson, the new defence secretary, to press for a clean break from European Union regulations, giving them a majority in the Brexit war cabinet.

The prime minister agreed a deal last week that will see the UK remain in “full alignment” with the EU on matters that affect Northern Ireland. But Gove will demand that Britain is allowed to leave the common fisheries policy and take back control of Britain’s sovereign waters even during the two-year transition period that follows Brexit. He and Johnson will demand a “bespoke” transition deal, and a trade agreement that allows Britain to write its own laws without seeking EU approval.

Friends of Gove say he agreed to support May’s interim deal on the Irish border last week only after being assured by government lawyers that it would not prevent Britain from ditching EU rules before the next election. “Since Michael has been generous enough to swallow any doubts he might have had to support the agreement, he will use any goodwill that has been generated to fight for the fishing industry,” a friend said.

The full cabinet will meet tomorrow, but the main discussion of the “end state” deal with Brussels will take place in the cabinet subcommittee the following week, just before Christmas. It will be Gove, Johnson, Williamson and the Brexit secretary, David Davis, urging divergence against the chancellor, Philip Hammond, the home secretary, Amber Rudd, and the first secretary, Damian Green, pressing for close alignment.

It can also be revealed that:
● The European Commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, snapped at May when she failed to deliver Democratic Unionist Party backing for the Irish deal last Monday. According to two sources, he said: “You can’t turn up here if you haven’t got a mandate.” Downing Street denied the account
● Tory MPs openly discussed submitting letters to party bosses demanding a vote of no confidence in May last week
● Three MPs said Zac Goldsmith told colleagues his four-year-old daughter could do a better job than May.

This is such a mess. So destructive.

William Oliver‏ @BilleeO
While mongering a little resentment towards Ireland Daniel accidentally announces the future threat to British beef farmers.

@DanielJHannan
@iainmartin1
Agriculture. I suspect the EU’s aim here is to prevent us buying food at world prices. More than two thirds of Irish beef exports go to the U.K. Understandably, they don’t want us buying from Argentina, U.S. etc.

Zac Goldsmith told colleagues his four-year-old daughter could do a better job than May.

Well our deceased pet goldfish could do a better job than Goldsmith. (I'm an independent, no I'm not.) Who obsessively follows in his zillionaire Father's EU hating footsteps, and arrogantly overrides the views of the remain voting constituency he represents.

Matthew Parris in The Times thinks a Canada style deal is not worth it. Can't read it all - paywall - but it looks well-written:

If Britain is heading for a version of the EU-Canada trade deal then we might want to think again about leaving.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/this-brexit-shortcut-looks-like-a-dead-end-w8x9tg5td

Michael Gove and Boris Johnson will insist that Theresa May presses for a hard Brexit when Britain begins trade negotiations with Brussels

Which won't start until February. And only then, if May delivers a clearly unified cabinet.

Did anyone really think the EU doesn't read the Mail ?

Kofa " I don't think any of the hardliners or the DUP are particularly worried about preserving the GFA"

The DUP always bitterly opposed the GFA, when it was put to the vote and also trying to obstruct much of its implementation ever since;
they've objected strongly to many of its provisions, as each has been enacted by previous UK govts, starting with prisoner release.

Hard right Tories opposed the GFA too - imo that was when the DUP and the Tory right swung clearly to the hard right and allied themselves with British and US fascists.

So, for the DUP and the hard Tory right, one aim of Brexit is to dismantle the GFA - Taking back control
*after the hated Clintons forced the UK to concede so much - another reason why they also hated Hilary Clinton so much

the only bit of the GFA they want to keep is that the Provos stay disarmed and stood down.
So, cake and eat it again

In February, when trade talks are supposed to begin, if the Uk has wound back its agreement on no hard border, then Varadkar would be entitled to say he'd veto any resulting trade deal with the UK that doesn't include this

• I expect anything else would lose his govt support across the RoI

So why wouldn't he do this ?

Even the "West Brits" party must have heir limits of tolerance towards a hardline Tory Unionist govt that breaks agreements before the ink is dry

Hannan has been gushing about food prices falling by 20% post-Brexit, due to cheaper imports. I can't tell if he's stupid or simply doesn't care how that might impact domestic food producers.

Hannan is another MEP who rarely cared about doing MEP duties properly, like Farage, Hannan spent more time campaigning for Brexit than in EU parliament representing UK interests in EU. And then folk wonder why UK didn't seem to have enough influence in EU.... I bet Hannan won't turn down his EU pension, either!

The only argument for TM staying is the same one as has been the case since she took power - everybody else looks even worse. There will be a Hard Brexit candidate, if she steps down, and it is possible they could achieve power, God help us all. Weren't some people offering Davis as a possible prime minister again this week? Boris could end up looking like a compromise candidate, which would certainly lead to us being comprehensively compromised on a range of issues.

Though my opinion of him has risen a smidge since one feels if he had actually sexually assaulted anyone, this would have come out by now. His considerable horizontal CV must be entirely consensual. This is the best thing about him to have come out so far.

I read that Parris article - it was... predictable. According to him, the trade talks will be straightforward and we will be almost bounced along into a Canada-style agreement but 'Perhaps our continental counterparts are heeding Napoleon’s advice: “Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake”.'

His opinion is that a Canada-style agreement would end up binding us to EU regulation but, of course, with none of the benefits of EU membership. He claims that many Canadian industries are now having to align themselves to EU standards and not vice versa. Plus negotiating it will take a minimum of five years and will not include services. Apart from the Napoleon quote which I haven't seen before, the column could have been lifted from Westminstenders...

Perhaps our continental counterparts are heeding Napoleon’s advice:

Not trusting the English in the dark is another piece of French wisdom.

And surely they learn at the breast "perfidious Albion" ?

I see Boris Johnson is back from Tehran with a lot of photos of him shaking various Iranian officials' hands but no deal done for Nazanin . She is due in court today for possible/probable extension to her sentence.

.

I accept that Kate Hoey is a nutter but WTF are Skinner and Field, who may support Brexit but also support parliamentary process, doing lining up with the Tories? Isn't Kelvin Hopkins the one who has been suspended by the party for sexual misconduct?

Agree BigChoc but I expect that they also want to keep the piece where the ROI, in order to advance the GFA, voted in a referendum to remove the territorial claim to the six counties of Northern Ireland from their constitution.

Which bit of Canada's MFN clause in CETA does DD not understand when he states he is aiming for a "Canada Plus Plus Plus" deal?

He really is a "bear of very little brain" and I'm doing a disservice to Winnie the Pooh