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Brexit

Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again. A Big Battle Looms.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/11/2017 13:56

Today has seen the publication of a story about how Johnson and Gove are holding May hostage in a ‘soft coup’ and have made various demands over what they want for a hard Brexit. The letter which was for May’s and Barwell’s eyes only has some how leaked. Don’t forget how Gove has just joined the Brexit Cabinet.

It comes at a time, when the Observer is also leading with an editorial demanding Johnson goes over his handling of the Nazarin Zagheri-Ratcliffe case as well as his long list of poorly judged comments which have had diplomatic consequences and another newspaper is leading with a story about how 40 Tories are ready to no-confidence May.

It all smacks of a personal battle between May and Johnson to govern the party, which has been playing out publicly for some time, most noticeable in the parallel Tory party conference leadership speeches and Johnson’s freelancing.

Johnson also seems to be potentially caught up, with what happens in the Mueller investigation due to a photo and lying about having met Misfud which could be politically damaging.

Priti Patel’s –sacking-- resignation also fits in neatly with the story. The Foreign Office were not informed and there is the curious side story that May DID know various details but told Patel to keep quiet, so not to embarrass the FCO. Or more to the point, be seen to be undermining Johnson.

Whether this is true or not we don’t know. It does have implications if its true, but it also says something if its not too. Why leak the story at all? Once again its about the Johnson v May dynamic.

As it stands, if Gove and Johnson have been leading May then why would they decide to ditch her and go for power without her?
Notably Gove has the best satisfaction scores of the Cabinet amongst Tories on Conservative Home too. He has had a lot of favourable comments over his statements over pesticides. The pair seem to have put differences aside and are working together. And May has become more and more of a liability. Johnson, also came second favourite to be Tory leader amongst Tories (if you discount don’t knows and none of the aboves). Maybe they fancy their chances…

Or it’s a last ditch attempt to cling on to that power as threats that Johnson might finally get the boot – if Zagheri-Ratcliffe does have her sentence extended and Johnson’s position is no longer tenable for even May’s self-preservation. Whilst much has been framed about it being about May’s political survival, its definitely not just her whose future is in doubt. Who was the ‘dead wood’, that young Tories demanded be ditched in a reshuffle to bring in young blood? Either way, Gove has firmly hitched his wagon to Johnson's effectively repeating Johnson's dismissal of Zagheri-Ratcliffe's case.

Anyway another week and another set of high political drama is a foregone conclusion.

A round up of other developments this week:

Tory Party / Government

  1. May announces intention to enshrine Brexit leaving date in law to force rebels to tow the line. This has many implications, not least tax related and putting more pressure on the UK government. It’s generally regarded as a desperate move by anyone sane.
  2. The Impact Assessments were a dogs dinner that was done at the last minute, and were not worth the paper they were written on. There was no detail to them.
  3. Priti Patel’s –sacking—resignation after having undocumented and unauthorised meetings with a series of Israel ministers. And then lying about it.
  4. Penny Mordaunt, who lied about the UK not having a veto to stop Turkey joining the EU, replaced Patel.
  5. Damien Green Porn. Another ex-policeman is backing the story that it was found on his computer despite Green’s denials.
  6. The ongoing Zagheri-Ratcliffe story with Iran and Johnson’s gaff and none apology
  7. Photograph of Johnson with ‘The Professor’ Misfud has been found. This links Johnson to how events in the US might pan out. If there are lots more revelations in the Mueller inquiry about him, then that might reflect on Johnson and make him subject to some difficult questions. Politically this might be problematic for Johnson.
  8. Claims that the whips office leaked the name of someone who reported allegations against Nigel Evans which occurred 6 months after Evans had been cleared of rape and the sexual assault of six men
  9. Suspended Tory MP Charlie Elphicke has complained that he is yet to be informed of what he has been accused of.
  10. Young Tory MPs issue threat to May that she brings in young blood and gets rid of ‘dead wood, who do nothing but screw up’. Give her until the New Year to do so.
  11. 40 Tories apparently ready to no confidence May.
  12. Lord Ashcroft’s latest poll reveals a very small percentage of people want a no deal situation despite all the noise of it being a good idea.
  13. Lord Ashcroft mentioned in the Paradise papers. Reported as domiciled in Belize despite assurances given to parliament that he would give up his non-dom status and pay tax in the UK as a Lord.

Parliament / Opposition both inside and outside parliament
14) May facing a possible revolt over Universal Credit. MPs due to vote on reducing wait times.
15) Talk that there are enough Tory Rebels prepared to back a Dominic Grieve amendment to force a meaningful vote on the Brexit Deal.
16) May under increasing pressure from business leaders to make a deal after a meeting with them at no. 10.
17) Lots of distraction in the Paradise Papers generally which raises the question over the power and influence of the super rich versus the poor. This plays well to Labour’s narrative and against the idea of a low tax post Brexit Britain.
18) Lord Kerr, author of the a50 clause states that May has misled the public and insists that it is reversible.
19) New Money Laundering and Sanctions Bill in the Lords. Government looking to omit 4th EU directive on tax avoidance. Naturally raises questions about whether UK would adopt new rules due to come into force the week after Brexit Day.
20) Money Laundering Bill also has lots of overlap with immigration and home office operations, raising some rather sinister questions over who could be affected and why. Potential for abuse seems to be huge.
21) Leave leaning Cornwall and Grimsby seeking special status in the face of Brexit – in line with remaining to preserve business / economic interests
22) Suicide of Welsh Assembly Labour member who was under investigation for sexual harassment
23) A Labour MP accuses the already suspended fellow Labour MP Kelvin Hopkins of inappropriate behaviour.

EU
24) Ireland demands the UK stays in the customs union.
25) Brexit talks have not progressed at all despite apparently being speeded up. Barnier saying that progress in December only possible if UK makes moves on the settlement deal. Prospect of stage two being delayed until March being raised. This leaves just 7 months to come to a deal, which plays to the No Deal Crowd’s interests.
26) EU believe the UK are not working in the best interests of the UK and there is a failure by May and Davis to understand the process or what No Deal will mean.
27) EU signalling that there is no bespoke transition. Only available options ae EEA or EFTA fudges.
28) Increasing view in Brussels that No Deal likely. EU think May hasn’t got the authority to come to a deal and its easier for her to drag UK off the cliff. Though they have doubts she will survive much longer.

World
29) Trump sides with Putin above the US Intelligence Community over the Russian election interference. On Veterans Day.
30) US’s Wilbur Ross said UK will have to dump European food safety standards and that losing our passporting rights to the EU would harm our interests with the US.
31) Developments in Lebanon, with it being said that Saudi Arabia said to have declared war. Many would consider this to be a proxy war against Iran. Crown Prince has purged political opponents including several with significant Wall Street interests. Eight died in a helicopter crash.
32) Large scale far right march in Poland as part of their Independence Day.

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prettybird · 13/11/2017 16:37

As an aside - I have learnt from these threads that if you google the exact headline of a FT piece, you can get into it that way, without hitting the paywall Smile

LurkingHusband · 13/11/2017 16:44

i wonder when he will instruct FT to publish a statement saying it was falsely attributed to him?

(full Machiavelli)

Alternatively, someone could publicly say that JR spoke to them anbd did say it was falsely attributed.

Of course if that person were to be ... stretching the actualite ... then JR is free to sue and make it 100% clear that the article is his advice ?????

howabout · 13/11/2017 16:45

Just for fun, and not behind the paywall (or wasn't for me?) Deutsche Bank Chief having a pop at EU politicians.

www.ft.com/content/1e4e6082-c77d-11e7-ab18-7a9fb7d6163e

I am not disputing JR recommending International investors ditch the UK it is the "if ... " which is missing from the headline and all the subsequent glosses thereof.

LurkingHusband · 13/11/2017 16:45

prettybird

I suspect MNHQ will delete that post as encouraging freeloading ?

BigChocFrenzy · 13/11/2017 16:47

Remember always that little RoI - that Brexiters sneer at for being powerless against the UK - is not on its own wrt relations with the UK:
the powerful Irish American lobby has always supported them to great effect

The US "Special Relationship" with the RoI is far more important politically to any POTUS than the one with the UK

Remember the days when no US politician wished to be seen shaking the hand of the NI Sec of State ?
When Smith & Wesson were banned from selling guns to the RUC ?
When Prince Charles was greeted everywhere in the US with chants & placards of "Prince of Torturers"

Remember the 1990s when Trump was proudly photographed shaking hands with Gerry Adams at a Sinn Fein fundraising dinner in New York - while the IRA were bombing London ?

If the UK govt are seen to damage the GFA - against the objections of the RoI, or even against those of Sinn Fein -
imo Trump will NOT give a good trade deal to his Brexit friends in the UK - they'll be dumped asap

HashiAsLarry · 13/11/2017 16:48

pretty I figured that's why it was handy to put the title on the thread. It's an interesting read to be fair, still hypocritical af.

agnes shh, now. Journalists are scurrilous liars and politicians are completely trustworthy, especially those of blue rosette. Wink

LurkingHusband · 13/11/2017 16:49

BREAKING: MPs to be given the right to vote down final Brexit deal. Big concession by David Davis.

But what does this mean ????

What if the vote is "no" ?

And are we supposed to be happy with the implied suggestion that parliament can be fettered ? Parliament shouldn't need to "be allowed" to do anything. The government - yes. But parliament ?

Is the tail wagging the dog here ?

prettybird · 13/11/2017 16:54

Lurking - I'm only repeating what I'd learnt on here and not sure those posts were deleted! Grin

At least I'm not advocating putting them up on the archive.is site for all to read Grin

I was just saying to dh this morning that I'm thinking of voluntarily donating a small amount to the Grauniad as their message is put very politely every time you go to their site about how they are determined not to put a paywall up but that they do need to be able to pay for their journalists Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 13/11/2017 17:00

Is it totally impossible that a politician would be sufficiently two-faced to write one set of advice to the plebs
and another set to his wealthy clients ? Hmm

If you don't want the FT paywall, Forbes is free:
www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/11/12/british-lawmaker-advises-investors-to-take-their-money-out-of-the-uk/#25ed7e154c1e

Redwood's advice to investors is to flee the UK before the credit crunch bites:
"I sold out of the general share ETFs in the UK after their great performance for the year from early July 2016
when I saw the last Budget and heard the BoE’s credit warnings.
The money could be better put to work in places where the authorities are allowing credit to expand a bit, to permit faster growth."

So he's saying he has already sold out his shares, because of the warnings
And you think he's not advising his clients to do the same

HashiAsLarry · 13/11/2017 17:03

Can't c&p here, but a few mps are tweeting that dd has confirmed the UK will exit with no deal if parliament votes it down. No meaningful vote, but puts the blame of a hard brexit in parliament rather than governments hands.
What a surprise Hmm

Peregrina · 13/11/2017 17:06

Redwood is quoted as saying:

I sold out of the general share ETFs in the UK after their great performance for the year from early July 2016 when I saw the last Budget and heard the BoE’s credit warnings. The money could be better put to work in places where the authorities are allowing credit to expand a bit, to permit faster growth.

I don't see any if there - just a straightforward "take your money and run, like I did". If he's been been misquoted he needs to tell them to publish his exact words. Conveniently for him, his advice came at a time when we were otherwise distracted by Priti Patel and Boris Johnson's antics, but now he's been rumbled.

HashiAsLarry · 13/11/2017 17:10

Heidi Allen very vocal in her disdain.
David Allen Green suggesting that whilst not great, it's baby steps.

Peregrina · 13/11/2017 17:10

Cross post with BigChoc.

No meaningful vote, but puts the blame of a hard brexit in parliament rather than governments hands.

I think this could still backfire on them. Witness the GE, when it didn't go to plan and the country didn't buy in to Theresa May's vision.

AgnesSkinner · 13/11/2017 17:16

Redwood: I sold out of the general share ETFs in the UK after their great performance for the year from early July 2016 when I saw the last Budget and heard the BoE’s credit warnings.

I wonder what might have happened just before early July 2016 to cause the BofE to give credit warnings? Didn’t Moody’s downgrade the UK credit rating on 24th June 2016 for some reason?

Peregrina FT op ed policy means that Redwood will have been given the final piece to review with the option to withdraw it if unhappy.

Motheroffourdragons · 13/11/2017 17:43

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Peregrina · 13/11/2017 17:46

Well, whatever it was that he doesn't mention Grin, he obviously believed Project Fear,

RedToothBrush · 13/11/2017 17:53

Sam Coates Times‏ @SamCoatesTimes
Portcullis House flotsam 1:
Asked a Tory MP which wd be worse, Corbyn-led Labour gvt or no deal brexit. He replied he wasn't sure.
Portcullis House flotsam 2:
At the meeting of party leaders on harassment last week, one participant said Theresa May was polite but played minimal role and "Andrea Leadsom effectively ran the meeting" not the PM.

Laura Kuenssberg‏ @bbclaurak
Davis up.... will he move to make this week any easier with Tory rebels?
Davis says voting rights now going to be sorted out bilaterally - basically on country by country basis
And now - big concession for Tory rebels - sounds dull but important, Davis promises a separate piece of legislation, 'withdrawal agreement bill - to go through Parliament once deal nearly done
Labour and Tory rebels both likely to claim a big victory on this - it doesnt mean the withdrawal bill goes through without a lot of hassle, but it does remove one of the big obstacles
Questions will be asked about why govt didn't acknowledge need to do this months ago - it's a big move
This means MPs and Lords will have a vote on the Brexit deal itself in the run up to our actual departure
No coincidence Davis announcing this the day before govt was due to have to defend withdrawal bill in Commons tomorrow
Keir Starmer says, 'this is a significant climbdown from a weak government on the verge of defeat.'
The bill does NOT cover what happens if there is no deal... Davis has just confirmed 'we can't have a withdrawal deal bill if there is no withdrawal bill'
Next few hours going to be really interesting ... Davis' concession has taken wind out of rebels' sails, but not clear yet if they will stand down

Jack Maidment‏ @jrmaidment
This could get weird:
Brexiteers could vote no if too generous to EU
Remainers could vote yes to bad deal to stop no deal

Chuka Umunna‏ @ChukaUmunna
David Davis' announcement just now that there will be an Act of Parliament to approve a final EU deal is totally insufficient: he gave no guarantee of a meaningful vote before 29 March 2019 and this doesn't cover the event of there being no deal /1
Clearly this is an attempt to see off amendments that go much further than David Davis on a 'meaningful vote' - it is vital the EU Withdrawal Bill is amended to provide for a proper not a fake meaningful vote before any exit day /2
Davis has just confirmed his new EU Withdrawal Bill for the final agreement does not preclude crashing out without a deal or meaningful vote - Parliament would effectively be sidelined which makes a mockery of parliamentary sovereignty /3

Anna Soubry MP‏ @Anna_Soubry
1/2 Hugely concerned Govt’s abandoned transition period by saying we will leave ECJ jurisdiction on March 29 2019 @ChukaUmunna
2/2 Ppl understood transition period would deliver status quo on SM & CU & therefore ECJ. @ChukaUmunna

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RedToothBrush · 13/11/2017 17:58

Christopher Hope @christopherhope
BREAKING Britain will leave the EU without a deal if MPs vote down final deal, David Davis said. MPs in the House of Commons audibly gasped.

James Felton‏ @JimMFelton
Spoiler alert for 2019:

  • David Davis gets a shit deal
  • Parliament has to vote it through anyway or else chaos
  • David Davis says Parliament endorsed his shitty deal, everyone to blame
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RedToothBrush · 13/11/2017 18:01

Robert Peston‏ @Peston
Moot whether in the end this concession means anything much at all - since the bill on the withdrawal agreement could well be put to parliament AFTER we've left the EU. In which case it would be pointless

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RedToothBrush · 13/11/2017 18:07

I'd say the plan is to take us over the cliff.

The Brexit Date looks like its about the ECJ.

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DrivenToDespair · 13/11/2017 18:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 13/11/2017 18:24

Kevin Schofield @ polhomeeditor
Ruth Davidson addressed the 1922 Committee of Tory backbenchers in the Commons tonight. Told them it was time to turn their fire on Labour and the SNP.

That's Johnson and Gove running Brexit over May
Leadsom running the sexual harassment stuff over May
And Ruth Davidson running opposition strategy over May.

May is doing what exactly???

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RedToothBrush · 13/11/2017 18:28

Laura Kuenssberg @ bbclaurak
Hearing Tory rebels are meeting at the moment

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RedToothBrush · 13/11/2017 18:34

Siobhán Fenton‏ @SiobhanFenton
DUP MPs cheer as Brokenshire says £50m will be released for health and education in NI. DUP's Nigel Dodds says this is the first slice of the £1bn DUP-Conservative pact

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