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Brexit

Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again. A Big Battle Looms.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/11/2017 13:56

Today has seen the publication of a story about how Johnson and Gove are holding May hostage in a ‘soft coup’ and have made various demands over what they want for a hard Brexit. The letter which was for May’s and Barwell’s eyes only has some how leaked. Don’t forget how Gove has just joined the Brexit Cabinet.

It comes at a time, when the Observer is also leading with an editorial demanding Johnson goes over his handling of the Nazarin Zagheri-Ratcliffe case as well as his long list of poorly judged comments which have had diplomatic consequences and another newspaper is leading with a story about how 40 Tories are ready to no-confidence May.

It all smacks of a personal battle between May and Johnson to govern the party, which has been playing out publicly for some time, most noticeable in the parallel Tory party conference leadership speeches and Johnson’s freelancing.

Johnson also seems to be potentially caught up, with what happens in the Mueller investigation due to a photo and lying about having met Misfud which could be politically damaging.

Priti Patel’s –sacking-- resignation also fits in neatly with the story. The Foreign Office were not informed and there is the curious side story that May DID know various details but told Patel to keep quiet, so not to embarrass the FCO. Or more to the point, be seen to be undermining Johnson.

Whether this is true or not we don’t know. It does have implications if its true, but it also says something if its not too. Why leak the story at all? Once again its about the Johnson v May dynamic.

As it stands, if Gove and Johnson have been leading May then why would they decide to ditch her and go for power without her?
Notably Gove has the best satisfaction scores of the Cabinet amongst Tories on Conservative Home too. He has had a lot of favourable comments over his statements over pesticides. The pair seem to have put differences aside and are working together. And May has become more and more of a liability. Johnson, also came second favourite to be Tory leader amongst Tories (if you discount don’t knows and none of the aboves). Maybe they fancy their chances…

Or it’s a last ditch attempt to cling on to that power as threats that Johnson might finally get the boot – if Zagheri-Ratcliffe does have her sentence extended and Johnson’s position is no longer tenable for even May’s self-preservation. Whilst much has been framed about it being about May’s political survival, its definitely not just her whose future is in doubt. Who was the ‘dead wood’, that young Tories demanded be ditched in a reshuffle to bring in young blood? Either way, Gove has firmly hitched his wagon to Johnson's effectively repeating Johnson's dismissal of Zagheri-Ratcliffe's case.

Anyway another week and another set of high political drama is a foregone conclusion.

A round up of other developments this week:

Tory Party / Government

  1. May announces intention to enshrine Brexit leaving date in law to force rebels to tow the line. This has many implications, not least tax related and putting more pressure on the UK government. It’s generally regarded as a desperate move by anyone sane.
  2. The Impact Assessments were a dogs dinner that was done at the last minute, and were not worth the paper they were written on. There was no detail to them.
  3. Priti Patel’s –sacking—resignation after having undocumented and unauthorised meetings with a series of Israel ministers. And then lying about it.
  4. Penny Mordaunt, who lied about the UK not having a veto to stop Turkey joining the EU, replaced Patel.
  5. Damien Green Porn. Another ex-policeman is backing the story that it was found on his computer despite Green’s denials.
  6. The ongoing Zagheri-Ratcliffe story with Iran and Johnson’s gaff and none apology
  7. Photograph of Johnson with ‘The Professor’ Misfud has been found. This links Johnson to how events in the US might pan out. If there are lots more revelations in the Mueller inquiry about him, then that might reflect on Johnson and make him subject to some difficult questions. Politically this might be problematic for Johnson.
  8. Claims that the whips office leaked the name of someone who reported allegations against Nigel Evans which occurred 6 months after Evans had been cleared of rape and the sexual assault of six men
  9. Suspended Tory MP Charlie Elphicke has complained that he is yet to be informed of what he has been accused of.
  10. Young Tory MPs issue threat to May that she brings in young blood and gets rid of ‘dead wood, who do nothing but screw up’. Give her until the New Year to do so.
  11. 40 Tories apparently ready to no confidence May.
  12. Lord Ashcroft’s latest poll reveals a very small percentage of people want a no deal situation despite all the noise of it being a good idea.
  13. Lord Ashcroft mentioned in the Paradise papers. Reported as domiciled in Belize despite assurances given to parliament that he would give up his non-dom status and pay tax in the UK as a Lord.

Parliament / Opposition both inside and outside parliament
14) May facing a possible revolt over Universal Credit. MPs due to vote on reducing wait times.
15) Talk that there are enough Tory Rebels prepared to back a Dominic Grieve amendment to force a meaningful vote on the Brexit Deal.
16) May under increasing pressure from business leaders to make a deal after a meeting with them at no. 10.
17) Lots of distraction in the Paradise Papers generally which raises the question over the power and influence of the super rich versus the poor. This plays well to Labour’s narrative and against the idea of a low tax post Brexit Britain.
18) Lord Kerr, author of the a50 clause states that May has misled the public and insists that it is reversible.
19) New Money Laundering and Sanctions Bill in the Lords. Government looking to omit 4th EU directive on tax avoidance. Naturally raises questions about whether UK would adopt new rules due to come into force the week after Brexit Day.
20) Money Laundering Bill also has lots of overlap with immigration and home office operations, raising some rather sinister questions over who could be affected and why. Potential for abuse seems to be huge.
21) Leave leaning Cornwall and Grimsby seeking special status in the face of Brexit – in line with remaining to preserve business / economic interests
22) Suicide of Welsh Assembly Labour member who was under investigation for sexual harassment
23) A Labour MP accuses the already suspended fellow Labour MP Kelvin Hopkins of inappropriate behaviour.

EU
24) Ireland demands the UK stays in the customs union.
25) Brexit talks have not progressed at all despite apparently being speeded up. Barnier saying that progress in December only possible if UK makes moves on the settlement deal. Prospect of stage two being delayed until March being raised. This leaves just 7 months to come to a deal, which plays to the No Deal Crowd’s interests.
26) EU believe the UK are not working in the best interests of the UK and there is a failure by May and Davis to understand the process or what No Deal will mean.
27) EU signalling that there is no bespoke transition. Only available options ae EEA or EFTA fudges.
28) Increasing view in Brussels that No Deal likely. EU think May hasn’t got the authority to come to a deal and its easier for her to drag UK off the cliff. Though they have doubts she will survive much longer.

World
29) Trump sides with Putin above the US Intelligence Community over the Russian election interference. On Veterans Day.
30) US’s Wilbur Ross said UK will have to dump European food safety standards and that losing our passporting rights to the EU would harm our interests with the US.
31) Developments in Lebanon, with it being said that Saudi Arabia said to have declared war. Many would consider this to be a proxy war against Iran. Crown Prince has purged political opponents including several with significant Wall Street interests. Eight died in a helicopter crash.
32) Large scale far right march in Poland as part of their Independence Day.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
50
RedToothBrush · 22/11/2017 19:06

Inefficient spending should be as controversial as cuts.

The fact its not tells you not enough people did A level Maths... (still trying to work out why this policy is a good thing. Surely better at a younger age to help everyone with things like budgeting?)

Besides which I didn't do A level maths and I still could work out what a crock of shit the stamp duty policy was.

OP posts:
howabout · 22/11/2017 19:07

Olivia and Hashi in fairness to OBR very difficult to model a moving target with ever changing sources of data. However latest productivity number which is post the forecast is very good and so is latest manufacturing output data.

On stamp duty I now understand the twitter calculations but they seem a bit disingenuous. Surely there is a need to put a floor on prices in the face of a 50% increase in house building? A price collapse rather than stabilisation would work very much against crowding in private investment in house building through Government intervention. So the stamp duty inflation effect should be viewed against the deflationary impact of increasing supply.

howabout · 22/11/2017 19:10

Red I agree with spreadsheet on investing in Maths teaching.

"More maths for everyone. Mr Speaker, don't let anyone say I don't know how to show the nation a good time."

HashiAsLarry · 22/11/2017 19:26

@OBR_UK
As trailed last month, we have downgraded our productivity growth forecast. We now assume average growth of 1.1% a year from 2018 to 2022
It's a positive number. That's good when you ignore the elephant in the room holding the downgrade sign.

TheElementsSong · 22/11/2017 19:34

Brexiteers covering themselves in Glory, Part 176,657:

mobile.twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/932677674509787136

Wrong! The Irish created the border by exiting the UK and they must now accept the consequences. BREXIT will damage Southern Ireland more than any other EU nation. The Irish must eventually come up with answers and stop pretending there is no problem!

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2017 19:35

22 Nov In Germany is "Day of Prayer and Repentance"
Not a public holiday, but the religiously inclined say extra prayers

Maybe we should encourage Hammond - and also DD and the entir damn govt - to join in the praying & repentance,

ILowering stamp duty will do bugger all for the poorest, just another tax cut bung for those doing nicely already and more likely to vote Tory.

What is in the budget to stop this disgraceful scandal:

“Earlier this year, Food Standards Agency (FSA) data showed that

17% of UK adults worried about food supplies running out before they had enough money to buy more,

while 8% said they experienced hunger or went whole days without eating because of a lack of money” Sad

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/nov/20/five-a-day-eating-targets-will-be-unaffordable-for-millions-after-brexit

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2017 19:46

The UK dropped ed from being at the top of the EU GDP growth league to the bottom - all since last summer
Coo, wonder what happened then ....Hmm

Mightybanhammer · 22/11/2017 19:46

Thanks to all.

I especially agree with cat from japan earlier.

I was a lurker who has joined the fray and remain in it, despite a very nasty intervention from @lurkinghusband.

Please goddess there are more of us.

Oh. I got a reply from my mp to my letter of mid October setting out my horror at the possibility of no deal and to publish the impact assessments. This was before it got to h of c.

I chased the reply and received a hastily composed poorly drafted nonsense of a reply.
my mp is a Tory with a three figure majority. He is a junior whip.

frumpety · 22/11/2017 19:49

Just out of interest is there anything in the budget about building new houses ? If so how many , are they additional to each local plan or are they part of existing plans ?

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2017 19:51

Hopefully, the RoI will administer a sharp kick in the UK's goolies, unless the UK comes up with a solution for the NI border
the partition that British imperialism gerrymandered.

It's like when the 8 stone weakling after suffereing years of the big bully shoving them around, suddenly becomes strong enough to fight back ....
We all cheer the comeuppance.

HashiAsLarry · 22/11/2017 19:56

frumpety
Alongside cutting stamp duty for first-time buyers spending up to £300,000 on a home, the chancellor announced:

Local authorities will be allowed to charge double council tax on empty homes£44bn worth of capital funding to boost housing supply to 300,000 new homes a year by the mid-2020sA review to find out where there is a gap between the number of homes granted planning consent and the number built.

From the Guardian website. Hopefully that's formatted ok

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2017 19:56

Yes, there is a definite strand of imperialist Brexiters who think all of Ireland should still be the possession of the UK,
that the RoI must be beaten back into line

Damn near all the rest of the world vehemently disagrees with British imperialism in Ireland, past and current.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2017 19:58

iirc, Hatold McMillan's govt managed to build 300,000 houses per year pretty quickly

  • because PM McMillan was determined it should be done and ordered that a way must be found asap
HashiAsLarry · 22/11/2017 19:59

mighty wrt to lh I was lost at the time you first said that and am still lost now. Seemed to be off the back of a North blog, where tbh whichever North it was had written some pretty obvious stuff. Confused

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2017 20:06

Yes, I think you may have had a misunderstanding there, mighty
Maybe LH was quoting something

TheElementsSong · 22/11/2017 20:25

I have to say, I've never found LH to be anything but a voice of sanity and reason.

woman11017 · 22/11/2017 20:30

Ed's still got it. Grin

@bbclaurak
No 10 sources say stamp duty policy polling v strongly (they would, wouldn’t they, but still) , private polling suggests its most popular measure in Budget

@Ed_Miliband
Yep. It sure made the difference to me in 2015...

And snitty Andrew Neil's now a story.
jonworth.eu/little-twitter-spat-andrew-neil/

mybrainhurtsalot · 22/11/2017 20:35

At the time I read LH’s comment as exasperation that someone (North) who pushed so hard for Brexit was blogging about all the disasterous consequences. Frustrating when lots and lots of people voted remain precisely because of the predictably disastrous consequences of brexit, so these consequences should not have been unforeseen to someone like North who has built their career on persuading people to leave the EU. But maybe it was interpreted by Mighty as a dig at them for posting something that is too obvious to be worth sharing? Rather than a dig at North? Just speculating.

prettybird · 22/11/2017 20:36

On a scale of 1-10, if everything else polls zero, something polling 1 will make it "the most popular measure" Wink - it's all relative! Grin

HashiAsLarry · 22/11/2017 20:41

pretty for some reason that reminded me of If I give 10 apples to one person and no apples to nine people, the average person hasone apple. Why are nine people mad at me?, which is also somewhat like Tory policy Grin

brain ah, that makes sense!

woman Ed is one of my favourite follows on Twitter. Has developed a real snarky side .

woman11017 · 22/11/2017 20:45

Funny politicians are never successful ones Hashi? I wonder? William Hague had a good sense of humour too.

  • it's all relative!
absolutely prettybird on the other hand:

@TomKibasi
Budget unravelling? Like other budgets of recent past, feels like #Budget2017 is quickly coming apart. Stamp duty cut that helps sellers not buyers. Wages stagnating to 2025. NHS gets half funding it needs. Nothing for social care. 5.1m pub sec workers get 8th year of pay cuts..

Tory MPs were bawling ageist abuse at JC, apparently and laughing about poverty. Gruesome.

On the other hand, labour front bench is getting a deserved sm battering for voting for fascism. And enabling this brekshit rubbish.

What times.

LurkingHusband · 22/11/2017 21:09
Blush
howabout · 22/11/2017 21:19

Also in the detail of the OBR. Their calculations for the cost of LISA and Help to Buy ISA have been cut by £2.6 bn and £1.6 bn respectively because of low availability and take up. So stamp duty cut for first time buyers is worth less than cost saving from this.

Lots of heat and politicking but that's about all in terms of analysis a la twitter.

LurkingHusband · 22/11/2017 21:24

Interesting (brief) comment on Brexit at the end. In the meantime fascinating for the archae-medical angle, and love for the NHS.

pryorfrancis.wordpress.com/2017/11/22/welcome-to-my-new-left-hip-joint/

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2017 21:44

Paul Johnson
@PJTheEconomist
Economy now forecast to be £65bn smaller in 2020 than the forecast in the March 2016 Budget
Lack of productivity growth a huge problem. #Budget2017