Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again. A Big Battle Looms.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/11/2017 13:56

Today has seen the publication of a story about how Johnson and Gove are holding May hostage in a ‘soft coup’ and have made various demands over what they want for a hard Brexit. The letter which was for May’s and Barwell’s eyes only has some how leaked. Don’t forget how Gove has just joined the Brexit Cabinet.

It comes at a time, when the Observer is also leading with an editorial demanding Johnson goes over his handling of the Nazarin Zagheri-Ratcliffe case as well as his long list of poorly judged comments which have had diplomatic consequences and another newspaper is leading with a story about how 40 Tories are ready to no-confidence May.

It all smacks of a personal battle between May and Johnson to govern the party, which has been playing out publicly for some time, most noticeable in the parallel Tory party conference leadership speeches and Johnson’s freelancing.

Johnson also seems to be potentially caught up, with what happens in the Mueller investigation due to a photo and lying about having met Misfud which could be politically damaging.

Priti Patel’s –sacking-- resignation also fits in neatly with the story. The Foreign Office were not informed and there is the curious side story that May DID know various details but told Patel to keep quiet, so not to embarrass the FCO. Or more to the point, be seen to be undermining Johnson.

Whether this is true or not we don’t know. It does have implications if its true, but it also says something if its not too. Why leak the story at all? Once again its about the Johnson v May dynamic.

As it stands, if Gove and Johnson have been leading May then why would they decide to ditch her and go for power without her?
Notably Gove has the best satisfaction scores of the Cabinet amongst Tories on Conservative Home too. He has had a lot of favourable comments over his statements over pesticides. The pair seem to have put differences aside and are working together. And May has become more and more of a liability. Johnson, also came second favourite to be Tory leader amongst Tories (if you discount don’t knows and none of the aboves). Maybe they fancy their chances…

Or it’s a last ditch attempt to cling on to that power as threats that Johnson might finally get the boot – if Zagheri-Ratcliffe does have her sentence extended and Johnson’s position is no longer tenable for even May’s self-preservation. Whilst much has been framed about it being about May’s political survival, its definitely not just her whose future is in doubt. Who was the ‘dead wood’, that young Tories demanded be ditched in a reshuffle to bring in young blood? Either way, Gove has firmly hitched his wagon to Johnson's effectively repeating Johnson's dismissal of Zagheri-Ratcliffe's case.

Anyway another week and another set of high political drama is a foregone conclusion.

A round up of other developments this week:

Tory Party / Government

  1. May announces intention to enshrine Brexit leaving date in law to force rebels to tow the line. This has many implications, not least tax related and putting more pressure on the UK government. It’s generally regarded as a desperate move by anyone sane.
  2. The Impact Assessments were a dogs dinner that was done at the last minute, and were not worth the paper they were written on. There was no detail to them.
  3. Priti Patel’s –sacking—resignation after having undocumented and unauthorised meetings with a series of Israel ministers. And then lying about it.
  4. Penny Mordaunt, who lied about the UK not having a veto to stop Turkey joining the EU, replaced Patel.
  5. Damien Green Porn. Another ex-policeman is backing the story that it was found on his computer despite Green’s denials.
  6. The ongoing Zagheri-Ratcliffe story with Iran and Johnson’s gaff and none apology
  7. Photograph of Johnson with ‘The Professor’ Misfud has been found. This links Johnson to how events in the US might pan out. If there are lots more revelations in the Mueller inquiry about him, then that might reflect on Johnson and make him subject to some difficult questions. Politically this might be problematic for Johnson.
  8. Claims that the whips office leaked the name of someone who reported allegations against Nigel Evans which occurred 6 months after Evans had been cleared of rape and the sexual assault of six men
  9. Suspended Tory MP Charlie Elphicke has complained that he is yet to be informed of what he has been accused of.
  10. Young Tory MPs issue threat to May that she brings in young blood and gets rid of ‘dead wood, who do nothing but screw up’. Give her until the New Year to do so.
  11. 40 Tories apparently ready to no confidence May.
  12. Lord Ashcroft’s latest poll reveals a very small percentage of people want a no deal situation despite all the noise of it being a good idea.
  13. Lord Ashcroft mentioned in the Paradise papers. Reported as domiciled in Belize despite assurances given to parliament that he would give up his non-dom status and pay tax in the UK as a Lord.

Parliament / Opposition both inside and outside parliament
14) May facing a possible revolt over Universal Credit. MPs due to vote on reducing wait times.
15) Talk that there are enough Tory Rebels prepared to back a Dominic Grieve amendment to force a meaningful vote on the Brexit Deal.
16) May under increasing pressure from business leaders to make a deal after a meeting with them at no. 10.
17) Lots of distraction in the Paradise Papers generally which raises the question over the power and influence of the super rich versus the poor. This plays well to Labour’s narrative and against the idea of a low tax post Brexit Britain.
18) Lord Kerr, author of the a50 clause states that May has misled the public and insists that it is reversible.
19) New Money Laundering and Sanctions Bill in the Lords. Government looking to omit 4th EU directive on tax avoidance. Naturally raises questions about whether UK would adopt new rules due to come into force the week after Brexit Day.
20) Money Laundering Bill also has lots of overlap with immigration and home office operations, raising some rather sinister questions over who could be affected and why. Potential for abuse seems to be huge.
21) Leave leaning Cornwall and Grimsby seeking special status in the face of Brexit – in line with remaining to preserve business / economic interests
22) Suicide of Welsh Assembly Labour member who was under investigation for sexual harassment
23) A Labour MP accuses the already suspended fellow Labour MP Kelvin Hopkins of inappropriate behaviour.

EU
24) Ireland demands the UK stays in the customs union.
25) Brexit talks have not progressed at all despite apparently being speeded up. Barnier saying that progress in December only possible if UK makes moves on the settlement deal. Prospect of stage two being delayed until March being raised. This leaves just 7 months to come to a deal, which plays to the No Deal Crowd’s interests.
26) EU believe the UK are not working in the best interests of the UK and there is a failure by May and Davis to understand the process or what No Deal will mean.
27) EU signalling that there is no bespoke transition. Only available options ae EEA or EFTA fudges.
28) Increasing view in Brussels that No Deal likely. EU think May hasn’t got the authority to come to a deal and its easier for her to drag UK off the cliff. Though they have doubts she will survive much longer.

World
29) Trump sides with Putin above the US Intelligence Community over the Russian election interference. On Veterans Day.
30) US’s Wilbur Ross said UK will have to dump European food safety standards and that losing our passporting rights to the EU would harm our interests with the US.
31) Developments in Lebanon, with it being said that Saudi Arabia said to have declared war. Many would consider this to be a proxy war against Iran. Crown Prince has purged political opponents including several with significant Wall Street interests. Eight died in a helicopter crash.
32) Large scale far right march in Poland as part of their Independence Day.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
50
Figmentofmyimagination · 15/11/2017 08:46

Why oh why is 'think tank' Policy Exchange never caveated on the Today programme with words such as 'right wing', conservative, libertarian etc (take your pick).

Expect to be bombarded today with fresh 'evidence' that the treasury got its sums wrong when estimating the gains of the EU and the price of leaving it. Our brexity friends looking for 'good news' are likely to be very excited.

When you read it, bear in mind that Policy Exchange was set up by Michael Gove and his uber-free market, union-busting friends Nick Boles and Frances Maud. It is behind eg free schools, academy chains, the trade union act etc etc and is ideologically anti-EU. Its funding has increased significantly in recent years. The name is deceptively neutral.

How this organisation manages to retain its charitable status is a mystery.

LurkingHusband · 15/11/2017 09:24

One way to counter fake news postings would be to charge 1p per posting.

So don't be surprised if you start hearing plans for some sort of "Facebook tax".

There was a similar proposal a few years ago to deal with spam emails.

Both proposals would break the egalitarian "net neutrality" which a lot of W3C engineers are ideologically wedded to.

Murdoch (amongst others) is a massive proponent of breaking net neutrality. It would enable them to provide a two-tier (n-tier) internet, and freeze the plebs out once more.

woman11017 · 15/11/2017 09:30

@faisalislan
Importantly from last night, Labour Leave rebels voting against whip are now down to 2 - were at 7 during Article 50 amendments...

Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again.  A Big Battle Looms.
thecatfromjapan · 15/11/2017 09:34

Good points, RTB and LurkingHusband.

This has been known for ages. I think what we're seeing is the beginnings of a management of possible solutions.

Given the power of Murdoch in the post-Brexit landscape of the UK, I suspect we'll see quite Murdoch-friendly legislative 'solutions' to this problem.

These solutions will be despite the fact that acknowledgement of the issue, user-education, and user-developed strategies would be the most democracy-friendly solutions.

woman11017 · 15/11/2017 09:37

@faisalislam
Would that be the same on eg the Government's exit date amendment? It certainly puts Tory rebel numbers of 10-15 in defeat territory

LurkingHusband · 15/11/2017 09:42

Pay-to-play internet may have been the end goal all along.

History shows us that disruptive technologies have always incurred the wrath of the elite. But who cares about history ?

thecatfromjapan · 15/11/2017 09:48

Yes, LurkingHusband. And, of course, post-Brexit UK is going to more, rather than less, likely to introduce elite-friendly restrictions. Angry

I think that all we can do is be aware this may be the spin, and to pressure anyone we can (our MPs) not to vote through such future legislation.

Can you imagine the Daily Mail/News International-isation of the internet? I can. There really will be no escape from people who have too much power already. Sad

lonelyplanetmum · 15/11/2017 09:52

Thanks For the explanation Patty. Going off now to investigate reports of social media interventions into elections etc in other EU countries.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 15/11/2017 10:25

Net neutrality is already under siege in America. The FCC voted in May to overturn Title II which maintained net neutrality. Individual states are contemplating imposing net neutrality rules but there's lots of pushback from people (who oppose net neutrality anyway) who think that have a hodge podge of different rules will be too confusing.

DrivenToDespair · 15/11/2017 11:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

woman11017 · 15/11/2017 11:34

Driven until a year ago, I honestly thought trolls lived under bridges in fairytales. Blush That this is not taught in schools, and that there has been no public education programme about sm speaks volumes.
Are there any reports in public domain or texts you could recommend on this?

LurkingHusband · 15/11/2017 11:38

As I get older, I see the value in "alternative narratives". (i.e "alternative" to the indoctrinaire view).

One view of the history of civilisations, is the control of information - by whatever means necessary.

The reformation can be cast as a fight between keeping Gods word secret (shades of "we can't tell you what we're doing about Brexit in case someone finds out") and spreading it. It's no coincidence that the period of the most intense conflicts over religion came when people started translating and distributing the Bible.

Also note how the UK (Well, technically England) quickly came up with a solution by issuing an approved English Bible. (I can recommend Melvyn Braggs excellent "Books that changed the world" for a fascinating dissection of how nuanced the religion and politics of delivering the King James Bible was).

"Approved texts" - great way to control the dissemination of information. Non-approved ? "FAKE NEWS, FAKE NEWS".

woman11017 · 15/11/2017 11:41

www.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk/news/update-from-the-inquiry/
No residents of the flats are/ have volunteered to be core participants to give evidence.

LurkingHusband · 15/11/2017 11:42

And if any of it sounds too “James Bond”, remember the polonium poisoning in London a few years ago, and also the “spook in a bag” story.

Georgi Markov and poisoned umbrellas too. Remember, Brit doctors were not supposed to have detected poison.

I am sure western agencies have done equally despicable things behind the Iron curtain.

And it is going back a bit, but the entire Gary Powers U2 incident shows how willing the US is to lie to it's own citizens without any fear of comeback whatsovever.

RedToothBrush · 15/11/2017 11:48

Sarah Wollaston @ sarahwollaston
On further #mutineer news, I have accepted that Britain is leaving the EU but setting a fixed date in law at this stage seems unnecessary, premature & may have unintended consequences. Raising questions about this is my job as an MP

Laura Kuenssberg @ bbclaurak
Sense this morning that the #mutineers might end up being rather pleased at prominence they have been given with happy smiley pics of them as a group

#mutineers cockahoop, debating whether to get pirate hats to wear in the Chamber

Pirate hats with EU stars around the skull and crossbones please!

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 15/11/2017 11:55

Sarah Wollaston @ sarahwollaston
On #mutineer news, yes, I will be voting to take back control for Parliament rather than a tiny group of ministers when it comes to effective scrutiny of secondary legislation post Brexit on behalf of my constituents

OP posts:
Peregrina · 15/11/2017 12:14

I wish Sarah Wollaston would either cross the floor or at least sit as an Independent. She seems decent enough and how she can bear to be in a party with people like IDS, Redwood, Fox, Johnson, Priti Patel, etc. is beyond me.

RedToothBrush · 15/11/2017 12:35

uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-poll-finds-majority-want-uk-to-stay-inside-the-single-market-2017-8
New poll finds most Brits want to stay in the single market after Brexit

Most Brits still want cake.

Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again.  A Big Battle Looms.
OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 15/11/2017 12:40

Faisal Islam‏ @faisalislam
Mary Creagh q on alleged Russian interference on UK social media pre -referendum. PM says her Guildhall speech was not about UK examples

Not UK examples...

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 15/11/2017 12:51

Trumpton‏*@Trump*_ton
Dear @DavidDavisMP

As a citizen of the UK and therefore a 73% shareholder in @RBS I claim my right to be exempt from #Brexit.

Yours etc. etc.

#ImABanker

Free movement for bankers!

Paul Waugh‏ @paulwaugh
New Chief Whip Julian Smith nodding as PM says she'll work with those "who wish to improve the bill". Ie they're not mutineers. Smith had upset some earlier in wk

Having a good start in a new job.

Paul Waugh‏ @paulwaugh
Tory MP Paul Masterson getting more than usual hear hears from fellow MPs. Why? He's one of the 15 Mutineers on Tel fpage.

Charlie Elphicke gets hear hears from Tory colleagues too..

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 15/11/2017 12:53

Busy day at work?

Just think of Gavin Barwell.

Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again.  A Big Battle Looms.
OP posts:
ElenaGreco123 · 15/11/2017 13:00

I always imagined the Russian bot farms to be very similar to the Chinese click farms:

[[http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/bizarre-click-farm-10000-phones-10419403]

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 15/11/2017 13:29

It's just so depressing. Why is the opposition doing such shit opposing?

PMQs verdict: Corbyn's scattershot questions give May an easy ride

Theresa May will have breathed a sigh of relief after a range of familiar topics raised by Jeremy Corbyn failed to penetrate her defences

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/15/pmqs-verdict-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-easy-ride?CMP=twt_gu

LurkingHusband · 15/11/2017 13:33

It's just so depressing. Why is the opposition doing such shit opposing?

Because - according to my MPs speech in the HoC - they don't oppose Brexit.

Swipe left for the next trending thread