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Brexit

Westministenders: The Tory Civil War – The Knives Are Out Again. A Big Battle Looms.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/11/2017 13:56

Today has seen the publication of a story about how Johnson and Gove are holding May hostage in a ‘soft coup’ and have made various demands over what they want for a hard Brexit. The letter which was for May’s and Barwell’s eyes only has some how leaked. Don’t forget how Gove has just joined the Brexit Cabinet.

It comes at a time, when the Observer is also leading with an editorial demanding Johnson goes over his handling of the Nazarin Zagheri-Ratcliffe case as well as his long list of poorly judged comments which have had diplomatic consequences and another newspaper is leading with a story about how 40 Tories are ready to no-confidence May.

It all smacks of a personal battle between May and Johnson to govern the party, which has been playing out publicly for some time, most noticeable in the parallel Tory party conference leadership speeches and Johnson’s freelancing.

Johnson also seems to be potentially caught up, with what happens in the Mueller investigation due to a photo and lying about having met Misfud which could be politically damaging.

Priti Patel’s –sacking-- resignation also fits in neatly with the story. The Foreign Office were not informed and there is the curious side story that May DID know various details but told Patel to keep quiet, so not to embarrass the FCO. Or more to the point, be seen to be undermining Johnson.

Whether this is true or not we don’t know. It does have implications if its true, but it also says something if its not too. Why leak the story at all? Once again its about the Johnson v May dynamic.

As it stands, if Gove and Johnson have been leading May then why would they decide to ditch her and go for power without her?
Notably Gove has the best satisfaction scores of the Cabinet amongst Tories on Conservative Home too. He has had a lot of favourable comments over his statements over pesticides. The pair seem to have put differences aside and are working together. And May has become more and more of a liability. Johnson, also came second favourite to be Tory leader amongst Tories (if you discount don’t knows and none of the aboves). Maybe they fancy their chances…

Or it’s a last ditch attempt to cling on to that power as threats that Johnson might finally get the boot – if Zagheri-Ratcliffe does have her sentence extended and Johnson’s position is no longer tenable for even May’s self-preservation. Whilst much has been framed about it being about May’s political survival, its definitely not just her whose future is in doubt. Who was the ‘dead wood’, that young Tories demanded be ditched in a reshuffle to bring in young blood? Either way, Gove has firmly hitched his wagon to Johnson's effectively repeating Johnson's dismissal of Zagheri-Ratcliffe's case.

Anyway another week and another set of high political drama is a foregone conclusion.

A round up of other developments this week:

Tory Party / Government

  1. May announces intention to enshrine Brexit leaving date in law to force rebels to tow the line. This has many implications, not least tax related and putting more pressure on the UK government. It’s generally regarded as a desperate move by anyone sane.
  2. The Impact Assessments were a dogs dinner that was done at the last minute, and were not worth the paper they were written on. There was no detail to them.
  3. Priti Patel’s –sacking—resignation after having undocumented and unauthorised meetings with a series of Israel ministers. And then lying about it.
  4. Penny Mordaunt, who lied about the UK not having a veto to stop Turkey joining the EU, replaced Patel.
  5. Damien Green Porn. Another ex-policeman is backing the story that it was found on his computer despite Green’s denials.
  6. The ongoing Zagheri-Ratcliffe story with Iran and Johnson’s gaff and none apology
  7. Photograph of Johnson with ‘The Professor’ Misfud has been found. This links Johnson to how events in the US might pan out. If there are lots more revelations in the Mueller inquiry about him, then that might reflect on Johnson and make him subject to some difficult questions. Politically this might be problematic for Johnson.
  8. Claims that the whips office leaked the name of someone who reported allegations against Nigel Evans which occurred 6 months after Evans had been cleared of rape and the sexual assault of six men
  9. Suspended Tory MP Charlie Elphicke has complained that he is yet to be informed of what he has been accused of.
  10. Young Tory MPs issue threat to May that she brings in young blood and gets rid of ‘dead wood, who do nothing but screw up’. Give her until the New Year to do so.
  11. 40 Tories apparently ready to no confidence May.
  12. Lord Ashcroft’s latest poll reveals a very small percentage of people want a no deal situation despite all the noise of it being a good idea.
  13. Lord Ashcroft mentioned in the Paradise papers. Reported as domiciled in Belize despite assurances given to parliament that he would give up his non-dom status and pay tax in the UK as a Lord.

Parliament / Opposition both inside and outside parliament
14) May facing a possible revolt over Universal Credit. MPs due to vote on reducing wait times.
15) Talk that there are enough Tory Rebels prepared to back a Dominic Grieve amendment to force a meaningful vote on the Brexit Deal.
16) May under increasing pressure from business leaders to make a deal after a meeting with them at no. 10.
17) Lots of distraction in the Paradise Papers generally which raises the question over the power and influence of the super rich versus the poor. This plays well to Labour’s narrative and against the idea of a low tax post Brexit Britain.
18) Lord Kerr, author of the a50 clause states that May has misled the public and insists that it is reversible.
19) New Money Laundering and Sanctions Bill in the Lords. Government looking to omit 4th EU directive on tax avoidance. Naturally raises questions about whether UK would adopt new rules due to come into force the week after Brexit Day.
20) Money Laundering Bill also has lots of overlap with immigration and home office operations, raising some rather sinister questions over who could be affected and why. Potential for abuse seems to be huge.
21) Leave leaning Cornwall and Grimsby seeking special status in the face of Brexit – in line with remaining to preserve business / economic interests
22) Suicide of Welsh Assembly Labour member who was under investigation for sexual harassment
23) A Labour MP accuses the already suspended fellow Labour MP Kelvin Hopkins of inappropriate behaviour.

EU
24) Ireland demands the UK stays in the customs union.
25) Brexit talks have not progressed at all despite apparently being speeded up. Barnier saying that progress in December only possible if UK makes moves on the settlement deal. Prospect of stage two being delayed until March being raised. This leaves just 7 months to come to a deal, which plays to the No Deal Crowd’s interests.
26) EU believe the UK are not working in the best interests of the UK and there is a failure by May and Davis to understand the process or what No Deal will mean.
27) EU signalling that there is no bespoke transition. Only available options ae EEA or EFTA fudges.
28) Increasing view in Brussels that No Deal likely. EU think May hasn’t got the authority to come to a deal and its easier for her to drag UK off the cliff. Though they have doubts she will survive much longer.

World
29) Trump sides with Putin above the US Intelligence Community over the Russian election interference. On Veterans Day.
30) US’s Wilbur Ross said UK will have to dump European food safety standards and that losing our passporting rights to the EU would harm our interests with the US.
31) Developments in Lebanon, with it being said that Saudi Arabia said to have declared war. Many would consider this to be a proxy war against Iran. Crown Prince has purged political opponents including several with significant Wall Street interests. Eight died in a helicopter crash.
32) Large scale far right march in Poland as part of their Independence Day.

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Thread gallery
50
Icantreachthepretzels · 14/11/2017 23:50

He managed to alienate pretty much the entire education profession

No teacher in the country would ever accept Gove as pm. I wonder if he has any idea of just how toxic he is to the public ? Or perhaps he follows Caligula's line of thinking 'I don't care if they hate me as long as they fear me.'

We're not scared of you Crickety Wicket - we just hate you!

He hasn't the charm of Caligula to even pull it off anyway - though I suppose Boris is a good enough stand in for Incitatus.

RedToothBrush · 14/11/2017 23:58

Anna Soubry @ annasoubry
The bullying begins. We want a good Brexit not a Hard ideologically driven Brexit #standupfordemocracy

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RedToothBrush · 15/11/2017 00:00

Re: Torygraph cover

Faisal Islam @ FaisalIslam
I'm doubting this is going to be a force for Tory unity
Four Select Committee chairs, 7 former ministers, two of the 2017 intake... if intended to intimidate this group, this may well backfire...
I keep on reading "mutineers" as a verb here

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RedToothBrush · 15/11/2017 00:05

Nicholas Soames @ Nsoames
It seems to me that many who voted Brexit for their own doubtless excellent reasons did so without having thought through in any grt detail , the immensely complex and often very poor consequences for our poor old country #cockup

I don't believe he's a rebel. That's a very anti Brexit tweet none the less.

Why tweet that?

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RedToothBrush · 15/11/2017 00:07

In defence of the Torygraph Twenty

Steve Baker MP @ stevebakerHW
I regret any media attempts to divide our party. My Parliamentary colleagues have sincere suggestions to improve the Bill which we are working through and I respect them for that.

That's one of the ministers in the Brexit Department.

Fair play to him.

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BigChocFrenzy · 15/11/2017 00:10

Useful summary of danger spots for May's Govt

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eu-is-keeping-me-in-the-dark-theresa-may-tells-business-leaders-snjzqndrg

A final vote on Brexit
Confirmed Tory rebels: 10
Danger rating: 10/10
The government pledged to give MPs a “meaningful vote” on a final Brexit deal. MPs demand the deal is in primary legislation.
Ministers face defeat if they do not concede.

EU charter of fundamental human rights
Confirmed Tory rebels: 10
Danger rating: 7/10
The government intends to revoke this, arguing that it codifies rights that will be put in UK law.
Rebels point out that there is no reason not to embrace it.

Henry VIII powers
Confirmed Tory rebels: 13
Danger rating: 10/10
The bill allows ministers powers to change laws without parliament.
The government claims it needs it to act quickly, but MPs are worried that powers could be abused.

Francovich powers
Confirmed Tory rebels: 9
Danger rating: 7/10
Under EU law a citizen can sue a member state for financial damages if they have suffered harm from a failure to comply with EU directives and regulations.
This would be removed.

Exit date
Confirmed Tory rebels: n/a
Danger rating: 7/10
A government amendment saying that Britain will leave at 11pm on March 29, 2019, has been attacked.
Dominic Grieve, a Tory, said: “It’s incoherent and thoroughly stupid”.

OlennasWimple · 15/11/2017 00:34

The Express can't afford to pay journos if it only charges 10p a copy!

I'm glad to see the rebellion finally starting to gather speed. I suggested many threads back that we desparately needed a cross-party commission of some sort to work through Brexit, and perhaps we will end up with an informal version of that through cooperation between people like Starmer and the Tory rebels listed ^^

mathanxiety · 15/11/2017 04:34

www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/07/how-american-politics-went-insane/485570/

LH, inspired by your OpenDemocracy link, here is a very long analysis of the structural changes and developments in the American political system - going back decades - that enabled the rise of Trump and Bannon, and may yet see the destruction of the GOP as we know it.

Our most pressing political problem today is that the country abandoned the establishment, not the other way around.

mathanxiety · 15/11/2017 04:37

RTB

But Hammond's lack of imagination and lack of radical thinking is also problematic...Hammond has to be willing to do something far more wide reaching which he won't.

Philip Hammond knows the best anyone can do is rearrange the deckchairs.

annandale · 15/11/2017 05:28

Mathanxiety, what an interesting article. The crisis of followership is a really good concept. Clearly some of the same trends are present in the UK. Think twice before you denounce people doing their jobs as corrupt or the establishment.

mathanxiety · 15/11/2017 05:50

Russian hack attack on Britain’s energy grid confirmed by cyber security chief

National Cyber Security Centre chief Ciaran Martin is to confirm for the first time that the assault on major power companies was ordered by the Kremlin [Woman]

Look - squirrel! Over there>>>>
(Nothing whatsoever to see in the Conservative Parliamentary Party at all and most definitely nothing whatsoever to see in the reports of car manufacturers' message to Number 10.)

mathanxiety · 15/11/2017 06:25

Boris Johnson and Michael Gove have formed a “political alliance of necessity” to deliver their model of Brexit in a move that has unnerved some fellow Conservatives.

Allies of both cabinet ministers say they and their wider circle have bonded in the past few months to counter the leadership vacuum from No 10.

What is that old adage? "Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer"?

One or other of them will yet end up with a knife in his back before this is over.

mathanxiety · 15/11/2017 06:26

Annandale - impressed you slogged through it. I think it was worth the time. Apologies for the length all the same.

Theworldisfullofidiots · 15/11/2017 06:31

My Mp has finally grown some balls...
In the last election I saw lots of people arguing with him despite being a leave area.

DrivenToDespair · 15/11/2017 06:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

woman11017 · 15/11/2017 07:17

YY Driven
It's in the msm today too; the cyber attack and straying Russian subs ( a concern even before the ref) Noticed too that attacks on Ken Clarke are in force from odd twitter accounts. Jack Monroe has sensibly asked people to report that inciteful tweet aimed at Carole Cadwallada.
And today's the day that I finally Blush set up subscription to Guardian. Its days are limited, due to the usual suspects, again.

woman11017 · 15/11/2017 07:28

I'll write again to my MP Angry Grieve has always been clear on the need to continue to build this up, from the grass roots, again.

lonelyplanetmum · 15/11/2017 07:42

*It's high time Russian influence was talked about a little more
*
I am trying to get my head around the Russian Twitter accounts intervention over the referendum. I normally think things like this are paranoid conspiracy theories, akin to Princess Diana being murdered by the Royal family.Conspiracy theory nonsense...
However it does seem true that Russian tweets posted 45,000 messages about Brexit in 48 hours during the referendum, from more than 150,000 accounts based in Russia. The accounts had previously posted on the Ukrainian conflict,but switched attention to our EU vote. Data scientists at Swansea University and the University of California have done a report apparently. My questions are:

  1. Why? Even if we leave the EU, the other 27 states are solidly together, so what does Russia gain from isolating us. We are small fry and are not their immediate neighbours.
  2. If 150,000 Russians are tweeting. Presumably they are all paid to do this? By the government ? If so, surely one of them would have leaked this fact.
  3. If it is true, why is tweeting so influential? There are many other sources of information showing the catastrophic side of the proposed exit. Why would tweets outweigh other news sources.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a45b7556-c98b-11e7-b529-95e3fc05f40ff_
thecatfromjapan · 15/11/2017 07:46

The George Freeman quote you linked to earlier BigChoc (12:43) is really quite chilling (and shocking that a policy adviser is saying the publicly - at last):

“an old people’s home that couldn’t pay for itself”

That is what I foresee. And losing 10%+ of GDP - which I think Brexit will do - is going to knock the UK into the ranks of second or third-tier nations.

I find it troubling and a relief in equal measure that this is now being openly discussed by those with links to government. I guess reality - and a degree of panic - are setting in.

lonelyplanetmum · 15/11/2017 07:50

On the subject of news sources to counter balance Russian tweets,these are just an example of news snippets from the last few hours.

Every day there is news like this.Why isn't it seeping in more deeply into Leavers' consciousness? Is it sinking in with some?

It is certainly not being registered by people like my FIL,his latest is that " they" want to invade and take us over. He wouldn't answer my questions on which EU country wanted to do that., why they did and how they were going to do it.

Car industry death knell
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/aston-martin-warns-it-could-have-to-stop-making-cars-if-brexit-talks-failuk5a0afc58e4b0bc648a0dd499?3ii_

Doctors joining nurses in understandably no longer wanting to work here.

http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/nhs-doctor-crisis-as-thousands-set-to-quit-due-to-brexit-1-52782688_

Some MPs finally brave enough to speak out about the impending customs crisis

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/leaving-eu-without-new-customs-115175100_

Guardian series on other European cities benefiting from forced relocations

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/14/paris-brexit-jobs-europe-uk-eu-london?CMP=ShareiOSAppOtherr_

PattyPenguin · 15/11/2017 07:56

lonelyplanetmum

  1. One less member-state is still one less.
  2. I very much doubt whether 150,000 Russians are tweeting. It's not one man, one Twitter account. And why would any of them admit it publicly? Not very healthy for your job - or quite possibly freedom - if you do. This is a state that assassinates journalists., remember.
  3. I have a relative who works in marketing. Social media is outcompeting the mainstream media as a marketing and opinion forming channel.
Cailleach1 · 15/11/2017 08:01

Emma DeSouza‏
@EmmandJDeSouza Nov 13
The HO have two weeks to appeal. After that we will be sharing our judgement in full. Our firm MSM are happy to assist w/ enquiries into the ruling the meantime #equality #WeAreIrish #gfa
@EmmandJDeSouza

We are in a unique position in the North. Comprehensive coverage from @SorchaPollak - "nationality cannot be imposed upon them at birth" we have the right to chose #WeAreIrish

couple of tweets from that woman who had to fight for the gfa provisions. it would be incredible if the HO appealed. i wouldn't be surprised. why would they want to contrave the gfa?

woman11017 · 15/11/2017 08:03

@peterjukes
Just worked this out. The law firm pursuing @carolecadwalla over the Cambridge Analytica (massive public interest) story, represent Putin (Rosneft) and hired Trump lawyer Michael Cohen!

@carolecadwalla
So. One day ahead of publication, Squire Patton & Boggs, lawyers for Cambridge Analytica, drop @guardian a line....

thecatfromjapan · 15/11/2017 08:09

I'll add to Patty's post:

A lt of those accounts are algorithmically generated, they're not actual people: they were to pass on tweets and amplify - giving the idea of volume and to circulate (though I believe there is some algorithmic generation too!).

People working in those troll factories do talk - but as PP said, not many.

The EU is a formidable trade and security bloc. The UK leaving weakens the EU, certainly in the short term. It's destabilising in the short-term, both for trade, income, and information-sharing.

Moreover, since the UK will now be on its own (and a bit desperate), it will be a weak spot within Europe to apply pressure on - for example, suppose sanctions are applied to some country, somewhere - the UK will almost certainly be less willing to go along with those in the future.

That's an obvious example of how the UK leaving leaves Europe as a whole less strong and formidable. There's also the whole issue of finance - the UK, outside of the EU, is less likely to impose lots of oversight into money laundering investment - so it becomes a destabilising force on any measures the EU wants to impose.

Ultimately, these, and a lot more, impact on security. Not only is the UK less secure, but it operates as a brake to Europe-wide security and also as a wedge destabilising the EU.

And that, really, is just the policy side - the effect of the UK being outside the EU in terms of policy and intention. there is the pragmatic side of shared information-gathering and shared security resources.

RedToothBrush · 15/11/2017 08:16

I knew people who were running hundreds of social media accounts to cheat at a game.

Well over ten years ago.

How has it taken so long for social media to cotton on even those accounts were reported (more users more advertising rev) and why were authorities so oblivious to the potential this created for 'cheating' in real life situations?

This is not new stuff imo.

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