Where do you realistically think we go from here?

[Bearbehind]

So Amber Rudd says 'no deal is unthinkable' and David Davis says the opposite.

DD also says we'd only agree to a transition period if the terms of our deal were known before hand.

The EU are still insisting the 3 priorities are addressed before talks can move to trade so basically we're at a stand off.

Something has to give at some point.

Regardless of what you want to happen, what do you think will actually happen.

I think we will walk away from the talks, all hell will break loose when the repercussions of that come to the fore and we'll end up staying in the EU in some capacity but in a much weaker position than before.

Humpsfor20yards

I asked my questions to you as you were claiming an absence of a specific emotion which would be incredibly difficult for anybody to detect. I keep on seeing such claims and it makes no sense.

It is strange you seem to equate celebrations with some manifestation of excitement. Why is that? When I am excited about something I don't throw a celebratory party. It's incredibly peculiar that you are so fixated on celebratory parties to be evidence of a person's inner emotions of excitement.

So you're on social media a lot. Which means you are judging people's emotions based on only the tiny population who are similarly on social media who choose to post their emotions. Again, what a very strange sample to make a deduction from.

This "I know what everyone else is thinking because I haven't seen celebrations/clapping of hands/protests/whatever else I dictate is the only satisfactory expression of inner emotions" line is everywhere at the moment, not just on the Brexit topic.

And look at our conversation. All I did was ask you questions. Completely neutral questions. Yet you came back and negatively accused of me being in an "echochamber", and now you've written "it seems you feel that leavers are as jubilant...". From neutral questions? Why do you do that? I never said either way.

You may not have seen any mounting excitement about Brexit. It may be hard for you to understand, but just because people do not present their emotions in the way you demand, does not mean they are not there.

Maybe they are secretly exicted and secretly planning celebrations

Maybe they are secretly excited and couldn't give a flying fig about your bloody celebrations obsession.

Ok, Flowerpot. Let me try again.

I saw and heard a lot of excitement about Brexit last June. There was actually a lot of talk about celebrations and street parties!

I have not seen/heard a great/deal of excitement about Brexit recently. I have by contrast not seen any talk about celebrations and street parties.

This - combined with what leavers have told me, and surveys, makes me feel as though many Brexitteers are somewhat LESS excited about Brexit than they were.

Maybe they are secretly excited and couldn't give a flying fig about your bloody celebrations obsession.

😂 I actual lol’d at that line

i think we need to pay up and be in a Norway-style model short-medium term.
then negotiate to pay whatever necessary tariff and leave.
the trouble is norway pays a huge amount to the EU so the bill will be large. but since we found the money to bail out the banks i am sure we can pay.
i find it ridiculous no one seems to be able to organise themselves. clearly theresa cannot keep everyone happy so she needs to make a decision.
i think another referendum is a bad idea as it will just create bad blood. a compromise and a Swiss/Norway model might be a way forward. the trouble is that both these countries are tiny and rich so they are not good benchmarks for the UK.

Are leavers supposed to be on here celebrating every day?
Is it humanly possible to remain in a state of euphoria for 18 months?

Some remainers are more annoyed that leavers don’t post much anymore than they are about Brexit itself.
Weird.

Humpsfor20yards

Ok, Flowerpot. Let me try again.

Try again to do what?

I saw and heard a lot of excitement about Brexit last June. There was actually a lot of talk about celebrations and street parties!

Last June was the vote. There was a lot of campaigning, media coverage and outward expressions of emotion. That's what happens when there are referendums.

I have not seen/heard a great/deal of excitement about Brexit recently.
So a year after a vote, you haven't seen or heard a great deal of excitement. What exactly are you looking for besides street celebrations? What do you need to see or hear before you could believe that a Leave voter is just as excited now as they were last year? Why do you need other people to outwardly express their excitement in a way that you want before you can accept they are excited?

I have by contrast not seen any talk about celebrations and street parties.

I refer you to my previous answer. Couldn't give a flying fig.

This - combined with what leavers have told me, and surveys, makes me feel as though many Brexitteers are somewhat LESS excited about Brexit than they were.

Who has told you what? Which surveys?

FaithHopeCharityDesperation

Yes Brits aren't cheap but if you want a job done right and on time you hire a Brit to do it.

Try telling that to my neighbours and me. We paid for a roof 'repair' by a couple of Brits (it took them weeks longer than they'd estimated due to them breaking off part-way through to do other jobs), only to have to spend several months going through small claims, engaging a surveyor etc, and then pay ££££ more to get their 'work' rectified by another company.

As to the rest of the shite on this thread, I can't be arsed any more.

As well as obviously being fucked off with the never ending tedium of at least one poster on every thread inferring (or often explicitly stating) that Leave voters are racist/xenophobic/stupid/uneducated etc etc etc

faith that is an incredibly tired argument; it is not what happens; in fact a Leaver explicitly called a Remainer 'thick' on the Brexiters thread.

Anyway, this thread was deliberately aimed at moving on from that and discussing actual potential resolutions to this situation.

Where do you think we go from here?

I don't believe there is a great deal of excitement about Brexit anymore among many of the people who voted leave.

I've told you my reasons why. Take it or leave it. [shrug]

My name is Faith.
I voted Leave in the EU Referendum.
I am still very happy with the outcome of the referendum.
I am pleased that the U.K. govt triggered A50 and is pushing forward with Brexit.

Unfortunately I have neither the time nor the inclination to organise street parties or publicly declare my support for Brexit on a daily basis.
I appreciate that for the hard of thinking, this may be construed as a lack of pleasure but fret not - this Leaver is still enthusiastically in support of Brexit!

That's wonderful, Faith. Good for you.

Same here I cant organise street parties either but am still very relieved we are leaving and nothing that has happened since has changed my mind.

Its critical we now get the best deal for the UK and I agree that we have to play hard ball. Its clear that the EU politicians care nothing for business in the same way the communists didn't. We cast an eye over stagnation across the EU, youth unemployment etc etc etc.
There has already been a leaked memo from Germany Business leaders calling for a good trade deal. Who will win> business - money makers - employers or politicians trying to punish us?

We have to play hard ball and walk away. Then let the german manufactors do some work on merkel and the rest whilst their profits start to fall and no one from greece is buying anything from them.

Humpsfor20yards
I don't believe there is a great deal of excitement about Brexit anymore among many of the people who voted leave.
I've told you my reasons why. Take it or leave it. [shrug]

You've told us you seem to have amazing powers of telepathy to know what Leavers feel, and when I ask about which surveys, or how you know you cannot answer.

What you really mean is you want to believe that those who campaigned to leave have suddenly lost their excitement, which then leads to you wanting to believe that they think they regret their choice which then leads to you wanting to believe that they all secretly agree with you.

Let me give you my personal experience. I voted Leave. I am excited now as I was last year - last year I was excited for the opportunity to vote to leave, now I'm excited that it's going to happen. I am not excited by having a Remain voter heading up Brexit negotiations and making such a pigs ear of it. This doesn't change my excitement that we are leaving one bit. There has not been a single cell in my body that has any desire to have any sort of street celebration this last year. When I woke up the morning after the votes had been counted I was euphoric with joy and cried tears of relief. Friends called. We rejoiced. That's how I display my excitement. I doubt I am the only Leave voter in the country who behaves that way. I don't know of any other Leave voter who has ever, or who will, want any sort of street celebration or party or anything else you are desperately wanting to see as evidence of our excitement.

I see the Germans want an full and open trade deal with us, according to a leaked document, bless them.

in fact a Leaver explicitly called a Remainer 'thick' on the Brexiters thread

Bear if I had a tally for all the insults you have thrown at leavers I would be a record breaker on insulting leavers on tally's by one poster

i find what happens is - you have a thread - a chat, a leaver comes on and gets swarmed on by a pack of re moaners demanding answers! not much fun.

faith that is an incredibly tired argument; it is not what happens; in fact a Leaver explicitly called a Remainer 'thick' on the Brexiters thread.

Au contraire Bear.

On the recent ‘Why do I you think people who voted differently to you voted that way?’ thread, the 2nd reply from a remainer was “because they’re racist idiots”.

I see the Germans want an full and open trade deal with us, according to a leaked document, bless them

They are caught in a quandary. Do we back Merkel at al and punish the Brits for naughty dissident behaviour and thereby suffer MASSIVE losses to ourselves, cut jobs, production slows, ( tempting I am sure) Or, do we actually want to do what we are in business to do and that is sell stuff and keep our largest export market open for business and free to sell too. Hard choice.

Hard choice

it is indeed, I believe the German Unions will have the last say, the one thing the Germans are afraid of.

The "huge" amount Norway pays to the EU is around £400m net so not really the same order as £10 bn from the UK. (Their population is less than 10% of ours so tends to flatter the per capita).

Also worth noting Norway has a trade surplus with the EU where we have a massive deficit - it makes sense for them to pay for access and even then they exclude Fishing and Agriculture, along with the CAP. On that basis it makes more sense to me that the EU pay us for a deal but the politically destabilising impact of that approach would probably cost more in the long run.

The only thing dampening my Leave enthusiasm is the nagging suspicion that politicians on all sides are still trying not to. I think that approach also carries significant political risk as the one thing consistently emerging is that the status quo has not been working for a long time.

I see the Germans want an full and open trade deal with us, according to a leaked document, bless them.

I linked to it last night M4dad.

Response: well I don’t see it reported in any media other than Bloomberg (the link I posted).

I posted the links from the mail, the Express & the sun reporting the same thing, the only comment on it from a remainer was that apparently it’s not news at all

I didn't see it Faith

That's the problem with a lot (not all) remainers, they spend to long in echo chambers and only see and hear things they want to see and hear.

I'm surprised there has been no discussion about the assets we own via the EU and how they are going to compensate us.

The only thing dampening my Leave enthusiasm is the nagging suspicion that politicians on all sides are still trying not to

I totally agree with this, if I'm worried about anything it's Brexit being sabotaged by our politicians.

That's so moving, Flowerpot.

Humpsfor20yards
That's so moving, Flowerpot.

What is your problem?