Westministers: May Shares the Cake

[RedToothBrush]

May's Speech Abbreviated:

We still have nfi how we are going to do this. EU this is your fault. You sort it out. We are too lazy, workshy and fighting like high school children to work it out ourselves. Be our whipping boy.

I support democracy as long as I get to do whatever I like
I support human rights as long as I can ignore them when I like.
I support the rule of law except when it doesn't suit my agenda.

Waffle waffle.

"Creative", "Dynamic" PR for my Premiership.

Waffle waffle

We really need policing cooperation, PLEASE keep it with us. I know I threatened to withdraw this, but I'm sorry, I was wrong and a bit of a dick about this.

Gets to the point FINALLY.

"2 year transition period"

(With another time bomb lock which is still too short for IT departments. Nothing to do with the next general election, honest).

RULE BRITANNIA!

Polite Applause.

The last sentence translates as...

We will deliver a country that is weaker, more unfair,disunited and more inward-looking than ever before.

There must be no attempts to remain inside the European Union, no attempts to rejoin it through the back door, and no second referendum

Worrying use of imperatives here. Doesn't sound like a democracy to me.

Do they know something we don't about the extreme right in britain at the moment?

Anyone would think they are trying to provoke a reaction.

On gender, feminism and the EU, so much could be said. It's no co incidence that brexit is a male dominated movement.

Chappers may have news this morning too. Not sure an even more divided remain side will be useful, but we are where we are.

My dh has just sent me this text :

Everything you wanted to know about Brexit has just been summed up in a conversation between 2 women on the train, one about 50 the other about 40. This is a word for word quote and they weren't being funny. "he's British, actually I tell a lie he isn't British. He's Scottish but he's lived here a long time so is like one of us now"

Nationalism may be a useful servant but is a dangerous master, everywhere Theworld

Is Anne Marie Waters the real new leader of the conservative party?
www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/29/ukips-new-leader-anne-marie-waters-could-be-anti-islam-activist-with-links-to-far-right

This idea of having NI part of the single market...

• the risk of seeing the UK disintegrating is huge, startingnwith NI of curse
• the DUP is going to spat his dummy out
• it will support the NI economy at least
• this is going to be a huge back door entry to the EU. It's obvious that they will not be able to stop goods from moving from England/Sciotland to NI where they will be 'repackaged/worked on' before being sent to EU markets.
• it couodmalso be a back door entry to eu products to the UK by gong into transit through NI.

I'm not sure how they will be able to handle that.

Yes I agree thatbthe wording fo the DEx is very worrying.
It also supposed that this is what people have been voting for which we know isn't the case.

More propaganda.
Clearly they are hoping that if they say it often enough, people will be convinced this is what they have voted for.

www.channel4.com/news/dan-hannan-mep-why-brexit-will-be-a-success

More of the 'if I keep telling you, you will believe it'...

www.channel4.com/news/dan-hannan-mep-why-brexit-will-be-a-success

More of the 'if I keep telling you, you will believe it'...

Theresa May to claim Britain's role in Europe’s defence 'has never been more vital

Another speech from TM.
And another call to keep things as they were before.
Because the impact on défense really could t have been planned before at all....

• this is going to be a huge back door entry to the EU. It's obvious that they will not be able to stop goods from moving from England/Sciotland to NI where they will be 'repackaged/worked on' before being sent to EU markets.

- it couodmalso be a back door entry to eu products to the UK by gong into transit through NI.

IMO having NI remain in the SM (and possibly CU) reduces the risk of smuggling/ illicit trade. The Irish Sea would become the EU's external border, and the policing of it would be subject to EU law. Any failure to enforce customs borders would be subject to legal action (recourse for injured parties via the ECJ or EFTA court depending on the details of the agreement).

It's a lot easier to control a few ports than hundreds of road routes.

Yes I agree thatbthe wording fo the DEx is very worrying.

It definitely is. Smacks of swivel-eyed totalitarian ideology, plus a gigantic dose of delusion ("make a success... for everyone" WTF). Welcome to Successful Brexit Britain.

As for the NI situation, just have a gander at Brexiteers' ideas on the NI thread - if my eyes could roll any further, they'd be looking inside my skull.

It's a lot easier to control a few ports than hundreds of road routes.

Agreed. It would reduce the risk substantially.

For those who don't know, it's 500km long, and extremely irregular. There are about 200 official crossings and some of these are roads that cross it two of more times. The unofficial crossings are impossible to count. Back when there was a huge British army presence on that border, every holiday with my Derry cousins we would walk to a hill fort called Grainan. I must have done it 10 times before I realised it was in County Donegal. We crossed the 'border' in the middle of a field of cows.

I was thinking of something different than having to control roads rather a few ports.
More the idea that once some goods are arrived in NI, they could be 'processed' there and then get the label 'manufactured in NI'.
Then they could be sent anywhere in Europe under the fact that 'NI is part of the single market'
What I'm realising is that it would mean NI is fully part of the single market, not just between Ireland and NI. Is what they are proposing?

Or is the proposal what the UK wanted in the first place. Let's move the borders of the EU in Ireland (like they have in Calais) and let them deal with it.

Yes - I picked up on the use of "must" and the "you will do as you're telt", "we will not countenance any disagreement" tone.

Actually quite scary in terms of our democracy

If the UK ever regains its senses, I hope that it either bans such referendums (because as Attenborough said, it subverts parliamentary democracy) or at the very least, some form of Referendum Commission that vets any claims that either side makes (as Ireland does) and ensures that any referendum is clearly defined as only "advisory" (as the EU referendum was supposed to be ) or binding, in which case for major constitutional change, a threshold needs to be achieved.

The Government - under Cameron - explicitly said that this was purely an advisory referendum. As such, the wording didn't need to be clear and what we were actually voting for didn't need to be crystal clear. Hence many in the Leave Campaign explicitly stating that of course we won't be leaving the Single Market .

Since the Referendum, the narrow victory has apparently become binding forever and a day and we apparently didn't just vote to leave the EU the question on the ballot paper we also voted to leave the Single Market and to stop all future debate.

If, hypothetically, the narrow result had gone the other way because of the strength of the Scottish and NI Remain votes (the schadenfreude result), can you imagine the screaming that would have resulted from the English Leave voters: the nasty Scottish and Northern Irish thwarting them.

Or it might be easier to think of it in the unlikely reverse scenario. Imagine if Scotland had been desperate to leave the EU but England was ambivalent and voted narrowly to stay in the EU. But because of the strength of the Scottish vote, the overall result was (narrowly) to take the whole of the UK out of the EU. Would the people have spoken and must not be thwarted mantra be as emphatic and prevalent?

I have emailed my Conservative MP:

Dear

I have communicated with you before, and I am impressed that you have got back to me on both occasions. I appreciate that.

You said that you would communicate my concerns to David Davis, the DexEU minister, and get back to me. Well, on the basis of this reply from the Department to a petition for a second referendum on whatever "deal" is brokered, I think I would get short shrift.

The arrogant and inflexible tone of the email I am forwarding to you beggars belief, especially given the specious arguments and downright lies put forward in the referendum debate and the very narrow majority to Leave.

Previously I asked you to please do your best to make sure that any legislation put forward with respect to our exiting the EU was properly scrutinised, especially that concerning Ireland. I am asking you again to do that and to do your best from within the Conservative party to mitigate the detrimental effects that exiting the EU will have on our economy, our communities and our democracy.

Sincerely

Just got that email response to the petition for a 2nd referendum and was . I immediately came on here to check out what you lot are saying. I was particularly about the "There must be no attempt..." paragraph. There is no reasoning why these things must not be, just the unsupported statement that this must not be. It is as if they think that if they just keep shouting it loud enough and often enough we will all just accept it as truth.

My MP has taken to blocking anyone on social media who disagrees with or even just questions him. Turns out you don't even have to do that via social media either, write and you'll be blocked. Thankfully our local Labour candidate has started a bit of a campaign via social media letting residents know. She also pointed out everything he voted against recently. Not that it'll do much difference round this way as there's a cult around him but it's nice to see his duplicitousness being shown.

Brexit is one of those moments that definitely' created a parallel dimension. Check this out:

www.cbi.org.uk/news/joint-cbi-tuc-statement-on-citizens-rights-following-4th-round-of-uk-eu-talks/

Joint CBI / TUC statement on citizens' rights
The CBI and the TUC have called for urgent action by the UK Government and EU negotiators to guarantee citizens’ rights after March 2019.

In a joint statement, both organisations, representing millions of public and private sector workers and 190,000 businesses, urged each set of negotiators to rule out the possibility that ‘no deal’ could lead to continued uncertainty for the millions of EU citizens who live in the UK, and UK citizens who live in the rest of the EU.

parallel dimension or an illustration of what the EU is: a fundamentally international capitalist organisation, mitigated by internal and national democracies, some trades union representation and the culture of the ECHR and desire for international peace and prosperity underpinning it.

And those who want to reverse it, want the very opposite of above, obviously.

^What I'm realising is that it would mean NI is fully part of the single market, not just between Ireland and NI. Is what they are proposing?

Or is the proposal what the UK wanted in the first place. Let's move the borders of the EU in Ireland (like they have in Calais) and let them deal with it.^

I think the proposal is that NI remains properly inside the SM. This means that rules of origin will have to be applied to goods entering NI from the rUK.

Obviously the DUP will hate it. It would clearly hasten reunification. Whether you think this is a good thing or not depends on your political stance on this issue.

OTOH an Irish Sea border doesn't resolve all the issues for Ireland - it solves the security issue and might help keep the GFA intaçt, but it creates a hard customs border between the island of Ireland and its single largest (I think?) trading partner.

Made the mistake of watching some of QT last night --kept having to switch over for the sake of my blood pressure. It was awful, far, far worse than usual - most of the panel were enthusiastic to drive off the cliff and almost all of the audience were annoyed at them for not doing it faster!
Ayesha Hazariki was really good though - not even heard of her before but she was so refreshingly articulate and sensible.

If you're not keen on imperative verb forms used by government: