Westminstenders: The Maddest of May and Boris's Dare

[RedToothBrush]

Boris Johnson just dared May to fire him.

That's what his little rant about £350 million buses is.

Meanwhile its been pointed out that HMRC literally are incapable of handling a no deal and can only cope with an EEA / EFTA deal with no tariffs.

And given how good and on time the government are with computer systems even in a best case scenario are extremely unlikely to crack it in time.

Which makes Hammond's talk of a civil contingence plan, look, well half arsed and lacking.

We also wouldn't have planes able to fly to Europe under a no deal as we would no longer be part of Open Skies. This could leave thousands stranded. But no biggie there.

Meanwhile if the Leave Alliance have things right, May is about to serve our one year notice on leaving the EEA making all these things a reality.

Which is less like shooting yourself in the head and more like shooting yourself in the head, chest, foot, arm, leg and face (for a second time), whilst being run over at the same time.

But hey, Boris Johnson has it sussed in his 10 point plan. Especially the point where he says Brexit will be a success.

If you call success ending democracy, becoming a dictatorship, starving everyone, bankrupting the country and causing civil unrest.

Rule Britannia.

Can you show me exactly where I suggested that??

ROFLAMO!

You use semantics as a defence for your passive aggressiveness.

Nice.

You do not need to explicitly state something for it to be intended to be meant that way, and to be interpreted in this way.

All you are doing is creating a way of denying something whilst you do it. It doesn't make it any less of the same thing.

RedToothBrush Sun 17-Sep-17 10:21:14
EU citizenship exists. You might not like it and it might not be like other forms of citizenship, but its real and I'm not hallucinating

Next time you go to the USA and you are completing your ESTA declaration, try writing "European" in the box marked "Citizenship". Let me know if that works for you.

Trout I am not wishing anything. The majority of Leave voters are older. This is a simple matter of demographics - disasters aside, older people will tend to die sooner than younger ones. It will happen whether anyone wants it or not, because we haven't yet invented immortality. And when it does, when the demographic balance of the population changes, so will the political balance.

That same older demographic is supporting the Tories. The average age of a Conservative party member is currently 72 (posted on previous thread). Looking at the vote share by age in the last GE, the Tories are not currently picking up the younger vote - in the under 45 bracket they are trailing badly.

The balance towards the Tories and towards Brexit will shift - it's inevitable. It will do so before the however many years of short term pain for long term gain are over - currently the Brexit brigade are talking 10-20 years. By that time however, the damage will be great and hard to repair.

RedToothBrush Sun 17-Sep-17 10:30:59
Can you show me exactly where I suggested that?? ROFLAMO! You use semantics as a defence for your passive aggressiveness.

Glad that you are finding the inner strength to laugh RTB - although most Remainers I know are miserable ALL THE TIME.

"You use semantics..." If someone says "You said XYZ!!" and you ask them to show you (it is all written here), that's perfectly reasonable.

Please can we ignore the derail.

cat thanks for the hug on the last thread

Why don't you fuck off out of the UK if you don't like it?
Why don't you fuck off out of the UK if you don't like it?
Why don't you fuck off out of the UK if you don't like it?

Oh I never told anyone to fuck off out of the UK for not liking it. I just asked them repeatedly why they couldn't.

I can't be a narrow minded bigot because I'm not white and an immigrant.

There is a name for people like this. I suggest we don't feed it.

Britain faces rebuke over refusal to back more than 100 UN human rights targets

Civil society groups warn that further deterioration in protection is likely as Brexit looms

www.theguardian.com/law/2017/sep/16/britain-un-human-rights-brexit

One thing's for sure, the leavers in gov could not be doing a better job of illustrating why we are staying in the EU.

@julietlodge2
Last poll showed over 80% would like to keep an EU passport after Brexit. You could not make it up

@britainelects Sep 15

Westminster voting intention:

LAB: 42% (-)
CON: 41%. (-)
LDEM: 7% (+1)
UKIP: 3% (-1)
GRN: 2% (-)

Labour winning the election that Dacre won't allow.

Tax chiefs draw up drastic plans to abandon a heap of projects due to their Brexit workload

HM Revenue and Customs warned it could need up to 5,000 extra staff - and has listed 250 projects in order of priority for the chop

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tax-chiefs-draw-up-plans-11171186.amp

You can't accuse me of saying something I haven't actually said but I can accuse you of it, because you lost. Get over it. Why are you still here you loser?
😂😂😂

Honestly, the quality is getting worse.
And still, nothing new. No actually arguments based in reality.
It's almost as if there's nothing behind the curtain. Not even a little man.

pointythings Sun 17-Sep-17 10:32:52
The majority of Leave voters are older. This is a simple matter of demographics - older people will tend to die sooner than younger ones. It will happen whether anyone wants it or not, because we haven't yet invented immortality. And when it does, when the demographic balance of the population changes, so will the political balance

See I am not sure how rock solid this believe that ALL young people, will be in favour of the EU comes from.. Also this myth that the EU is some kind of liberal haven. The reality of FOM is that it is has massively impacted lower paid workers and allowed corporations to import cheap labour (rather than train the local workforce).

I was out of the country from 2003 - 2006. When I came back to my UK office, the building my business occupied now had every single one of it's cleaners from Portugal. Not one exception. Was this because the former cleaners suddenly retired, died or decided they didn't want to be cleaners anymore? I don't think so. The contracting cleaning company switched and put all the former employees on absolute minimum wage with a tiny fraction of what the previous employees enjoyed in terms of benefits etc. The new company actively hires in Portugal. They are all lovely people but to believe that this some Liberal fair-minded utopia is just bunkum. FOM favours large corporations because it allows them to make more profit by hiring cheaper labour from poorer parts of the EU.

Facts, facts are important
immigration, jobs and wages
🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️
May be a bit too wordy for some though.

Hang on a second. I thought all Remainers were supposed to be highly erudite, educated and capable of making wonderful arguments. Yet all I see you doing RTB and Hasish is putting up a strawman argument and arguing against points you wish I had made but didn't.

If some says they are "desperate" to leave though (and yes, that WAS a direct quote from a Leaver here), it is reasonable to ask the question "Well, what are your options"

I do find that this basic question "What are your options?" seems to be like a crucifix to the Leaver UnDead...They recoil in horror when you ask them to consider, dispassionately and logically the things the things they are desperate to get away from.

Their normal reaction is to say How VERY DARE you even ask me about options??? All I want to do is moan about being here!!!

Phil Baty‏ @Phil_Baty
Sector has 5.2% surplus but with "significant variations". Financial strength in "small number of institutions". OUTRAGEOUS "CASH MOUNTAIN"!

Dan Rebellato‏ @DanRebellato

Is it possible the Government are going to be so stupid as to enact this plan? It’s even more destructive than introducing £9k fees. 1/18
First, yes it’s a cut to what students will have to pay, but without making up the difference, it’s a 20% cut to the universities. 2/
They’ll make up most of the gap for STEM subjects but for no one else. So English, History, Music, Philosophy, Drama, Classics – 20% cut. 3/
Second, they criticise unis for holding cash reserves. We’re SUPPOSED to hold reserves - so we can cope with stupid policies like this. 4/
My university had decent reserves in 2012. Thank God. It meant that we could ride out the CHAOS of the £9k fee introduction. 5/
I notice, though, that the article contains zero facts about this ‘cash mountain’, just a reference to ‘multimillion-pound surpluses’. 6/
A medium-size university, with 14000 students, has an annual turnover of £130m in fees alone. They SHOULD have £multimillion reserves. 7/
Third, they might cap student loans at BELOW £7500. So if you or your parents don’t have spare cash, you can’t go to university. 8/
Fourth, they believe universities don’t offer value for money. But in a market system, isn’t the value what students are willing to pay? 9/
Students have, so far, proved willing to pay this money, so what’s your argument? What does ‘value’ mean to you. 10/
Ah, answering that question, brings the accountant and the banker, in their long coats, running over the fields. 11/
Apparently value is to be judged on the basis of graduate pay. The only point of university is to get a higher salary. 12/
That’s a sad insight into how these drab, damp pettyfogging Gradgrinds in Government think. Why do anything if it doesn’t make you rich? 13/
Why find out about Baroque art? Or the French Revolution? Or Hegel? Or Chekhov? Or the pre-Socratics? if it doesn’t jack up your salary? 14/
They’ll cut most of the sector by 20%, force us to deplete our reserves, force out poorer students, create incredible instability. 15/
The Tories don’t get public service and haven’t done for over 40 years. Sometimes I think they introduce chaotic policy like this... 16/
Because, in their ignorance and contempt, they think bad policy is fine because it will 'shake us up'. 17/
This is their worst university policy yet. Cruel, destructive, reckless, philistine, crude and shameless. We have to stop them. END. 18/

Dear Dan, Of course they will do it. Its straight out of the 'Right Wing Dictators Handbook' to attack educational institutions and weaken them. Its an attack on the educated. Not to mention the Right wing have a big of a problem with under 25s and student power at the moment. Why on earth would they pass up on this policy?

Erdogan would be proud.

Quite how this fits with making our country a world leader, is beyond me though. What are people going to do? Oh yes, I forgot. A bright future awaits in the Feudalist Revival and ploughing the fields.

And there's the confirmation all

prettybird Yes he did ask her and was quite firm with her. She wriggled out of it by saying that she couldn't talk about the details of the case.

Hashish
I am going to take a wild guess here that you are not an unskilled worker on minimum wage. But the argument that our fruit will wither on the vines and our vegetables won't get picked is used most often by people who are actually saying " I might have to pay a decent wage for those jobs, rather than relying on an endless supply of labour from countries with a GDP one fifth of ours".

Aren't STEM subject choices gendered?

Keep stating the bullshit all you want, still doesn't make it not bullshit.
Facts are important.

Public transport cuts and disconnected communities are an EU created problem. New estates built without thought to associated infrastructure are an EU created problem. People having food as a priority over transport costs are an EU created problem.

Honest.

BUT LOOK IMMIGRANT. ONE OF THOSE NASTY ONES NOT ONES LIKE ME.

If some says they are "desperate" to leave though (and yes, that WAS a direct quote from a Leaver here), it is goady as fuck reasonable to ask the question "Well, what are your options"

Btw, does anyone remember this?

Maybe someone should show the government what is possible when you look at the techniques of other countries

twofingerstoEverything Sun 17-Sep-17 10:58:03
If some says they are "desperate" to leave though (and yes, that WAS a direct quote from a Leaver here), it is goady as fuck reasonable to ask the question "Well, what are your options?"

I disagree. It is an empowering question to get the person who is "desperate" to change things to

1. Clarify what exactly they do want (rather than what they don't want)
2. Consider what options and choices are open to them
3. Make a decision
4. Take action
5. Make it a reality

It's a fairly basic process to get people to act like mature adults with choices. Works on children. Even works on pets.

That sums up quite a lot of what many of us would like the government to do Kilgore.

It is an empowering question to get the person who is "desperate" to change things to

1. Clarify what exactly they do want (rather than what they don't want)
2. Consider what options and choices are open to them
3. Make a decision
4. Take action
5. Make it a reality

The leavers should really have worked this out as they're so desperate to change things. Well done for summing it up so concisely.

But it is goady as fuck when they've actually answered why they can't do these things.
Also, when you care about other people in an emotional and medical sense as in those cases, you take their thoughts and feelings into account. It's called empathy. You should get some.

@csbell_stephen

This is the key issue....customs system will not be ready till 2020. So how do you leave when you can't export anything? Societal collapse..

@csbell_stephen
Replying to @WokChiSteve @CosimadiRonda @jameschappers
Spot on. Supermarkets have 3 days of food. 1 week of import problems and you'll have curfew and martial law. 2 weeks and it's very bad...