Westminstenders: The Maddest of May and Boris's Dare

[RedToothBrush]

Boris Johnson just dared May to fire him.

That's what his little rant about £350 million buses is.

Meanwhile its been pointed out that HMRC literally are incapable of handling a no deal and can only cope with an EEA / EFTA deal with no tariffs.

And given how good and on time the government are with computer systems even in a best case scenario are extremely unlikely to crack it in time.

Which makes Hammond's talk of a civil contingence plan, look, well half arsed and lacking.

We also wouldn't have planes able to fly to Europe under a no deal as we would no longer be part of Open Skies. This could leave thousands stranded. But no biggie there.

Meanwhile if the Leave Alliance have things right, May is about to serve our one year notice on leaving the EEA making all these things a reality.

Which is less like shooting yourself in the head and more like shooting yourself in the head, chest, foot, arm, leg and face (for a second time), whilst being run over at the same time.

But hey, Boris Johnson has it sussed in his 10 point plan. Especially the point where he says Brexit will be a success.

If you call success ending democracy, becoming a dictatorship, starving everyone, bankrupting the country and causing civil unrest.

Rule Britannia.

Oops sorry it was actually Friday evening , lose track of the days when working over the weekend !

Kilgore Why don't you take your fatuous shit-stirring somewhere else if you don't have an intelligent contribution to make? If you engaged your imagination for one second, common sense would tell you that there would be a multitude of reasons why people can't just up sticks and leave the country where they live. The 'why don't you leave' argument, which you've now repeated across at least two threads, is so infantile.
(Place mat)

"Much as you might not like it, leavers need remainers more than we need you!"

If Remainers weren't ideologically opposed to Brexit they'd be the only hope for navigating a reasonably decent strategy.

I must have missed the HMRC statement what is this about?

The quality is dropping hideously. Maybe they'll eventually save us time and just pop up to say 'your mum' from time to time

Thanks for new thread rtb

Would be cheeky to ask if someone could sum up why
The Legatum Institute is dodgy?

I understand it's sponsored by someone in Dubai? NO transparency I assume? What else?

Kilgore...
I have an elderly frail mother - for whom I provide free care
I have 2 children who are at school - 1 who has just stated year 10
I have friends - believe it or not - who I would be sad to leave.
I will not separate my children from their
father - so we all go or none of us go.
I'm sure even you can understand those reasons?

Oh Kilgore be nice or in the words of my old netball teacher ' no kicking, biting , scratching or gouging '

If Remainers weren't ideologically opposed to Brexit they'd be the only hope for navigating a reasonably decent strategy.

Theresa May was a lukewarm Remainer, is she negotiating a reasonably decent strategy? What about those MPs who assured us that they voted Remain? I haven't seen any strong arguments from them - possibly Philip Hammond is trying, what about the rest? They seem more concerned with papering over the fissures in the Tory party.

Try a google search "HMRC not ready for brexit" In 0.52 seconds you will get a whole page of links as to why it's thought not.
Try doing an Advanced Search on MN for Legatum and you will find plenty of information. Two of the Westministenders threads will give you links. No need even to trawl 'tinternet.

How much effort does that require? If Leavers can't be arsed to do any work for Brexit, when they are the ones who want it, then why on earth should Remainers?

There is also the 'why the fuck should I leave to please these jingoistic dickhead who want to destroy my country and all it represented' argument.

I am not proud of being British right now because I don't want to be associated with bigoted and small minded fools who have no clue about the implications of the type of Brexit that is being pursued.

Nor do I think it right that people should be bullied or intimidated to leave the country they have made their home in and contributed so much to.

Whether that be because they are European and Theresa wants the UK to be hostile to foreigners (whilst managing to also say at the say time she wants Britain to be open and welcoming to foreigners!!). Or because they are British and capable of seeing the dictators power grab, rampant corruption or the plain simple incompetence of their government.

I don't like my British citizenship for all that it represents right now. I never had a problem with it before and I am very happy with my European citizenship which I am having stripped from me without my consent.

I regard this as an affront to my liberty. Liberty that I thought was a British virtue.

Well said red
I tried to type something similar but it became mostly swear words

I'm also working on a contingency plan for leaving, I don't want to, but just in case things should go very badly wrong. My husband is in total denial, but has now come round to it a bit when I pointed out the advantages of certain places (mountains, snow, nice food!). The passports recognition thing threw me though. I'm going to look into the possibility of a second nationality through my grandparents, although not sure if the claim is strong enough. I'm so worried :(

Dh is in total denial.

Peregrina you are completely right, I agree with you. Brexit is an impossibility but it seems to me that the only decent chance of coming up with the least destructive strategy from this point on would require a level of critical thinking and insight that i have not observed in any arguments brought forward by Leavers. I used to work for the civil service many years ago. Would i touch a civil service job now? Not with a barge pole.

Yes yes -rtb
It took me a long time to get to pride in my British half. I only got my passport 5 years ago. This attitude that if you aren't British or possibly are proud of dual heritage means you should fuck off is what I grew up with and why it took so long to feel any attachment to the British side or pride in what being British . Now the attitude is back and I don't want to be associated with it. I'd rather have the taint of forrin blood than be seen as a small minded jingoistic fool.

I don't think I can rustle up any forebears to claim nationality through, and as a pensioner I am not wealthy enough to buy a passport from Malta, or similar. Pity.

My DH is also in denial, although he voted Remain.

Dh said he voted remain but he was a Tory voter so....who knows?

Although he has agreed to start buying tinned goods and uht milk 👍

Hang on a second TwofingerstoEverything
I asked a question in response to this
Badders08 Sat 16-Sep-17 23:12:43
I desperately want to leave

I desperately want to leave. Desperately
If you were with a friend or loved one say at a restaurant, shop or someone else's house and they said to you "I desperately want to leave", would you try to force them to stay against their consent?

Sorry blatantly place marking so I can continue to read thread.

That's really shocking about HRMC. It's just such a total cluster fuck I feel sad for what's going to happen here.

I just said on another thread we are leaving the UK and Brexit is one of the reasons. I'm not quiet ready to go but we won't take on a bigger mortgage with all the uncertainty.

Don't blame HMRC entirely. The Civil Service has been cut back and cut back - too much red tape, blah, blah, blah.

I am biased, I once worked for the Inland Revenue. What annoyed me then was the way politicians like Thatcher would get bees in their bonnets and send in management consultants to tell us how to do our jobs better, and then, at great expense come up with suggestions which we had already submitted via the staff suggestion scheme.

I don't like my British citizenship. I am very happy with my European citizenship which I am having stripped from me without my consent.

It took me a long time to get to pride in my British half.

See these are the kind of comments that I think sum up the MN Remain lobby. I am of immigrant stock myself. And before any tells me I am a racist, I am brown skinned and have a spouse of a different race.

I want a healthy, sustainable level of immigration to the UK from all over the world - not just 27 countries that happen to be closer to us. But a nation without borders is not a nation. We need controlled numbers and be able to focus on skills we can't find or train here.

My parents came to this country because of its values of tolerance, fairness and the rule of law and order. I am deeply proud to be British. I love Europe (the continent) and Europeans (many of the people). But I hate the institution of the EU (which is flawed by design and corrupt).

If you feel your European "Citizenship" is being stripped away without your consent, you do have options.

Steven Lawrence @ SteveLawrence_
Civil Service concerns must now be driving Brexit decision making in Cabinet - the foundations for a stable Brexit have been dug in ...
2. the wrong place - it's now impossible to have the infrastructure in place in time. The IT, physical infrastructure & Human Resources ...
3. are impossible in 18 months. The port of Dover has a capacity of 20% of the full Brexit load & that probably applies to every UK port ...
4. & airport. The problem also exists on the opposite side of the border but the UK hasn't yet informed the ports of Calais, Rotterdam, ...
5. Hamburg & Bilbao what will be necessary. So UK cross-border traffic will have to be dealt with under special measures - an emergency ...
6. strategy is now needed. The only logical mechanisms are firstly an emergency hiatus or secondly an emergency extension to the EU Treaty.
7. There are no middle ground alternatives to these extremes. The extension plan is a known - it's the same as now but the hiatus is ...
8. very different & itself involves planning because it means driving cross-border traffic of any kind down to close to zero.
9. Logically this leaves May with only one option in her Florence speech & that has to encompass an extension to the Article 50 deadline
10. the problem for her is that it would leave her exposed as a Brexit traitor within the eurosceptic cabal at the heart of the Tory party
11. Johnson, sensing the opportunity, has viciously struck but has simultaneously placed himself, probably unwittingly, as the ...
12. principle proponent of 'hiatus Brexit' - a prospect so damaging that he won't last long - Brexit is a poisoned chalice for sharing. /end

A reminder. In the 15 months since the referendum the government has not put in a single practical measure designed to carry out Brexit.

May has destroyed democracy by ignoring British values in pursuit of power and rolled out by stealth an immigration policy which is illegal in both British and EU law in the way it discriminates. This policy is not restricted to the Home Office but is a requirement of all ministries.

She was told of the practical problems if Brexit. By Remainers. Remainers who said don't trigger a50 yet, we don't have the capability or capacity to implement Brexit.

But she triggered it anyway by forcing it through personally.

May had time and didn't have an election for years. She could have waited. She was too weak and too reckless and too arrogant and too obsessed with power and that chip on her shoulder about human rights to listen.

Remainers are now traitors for pointing out the reality - which if they were listened to, could have helped Brexit.

Instead we are in a clusterfuck with no practical way forward and the way back seen as politically impossible.

May's speech is now being suggested it will go one way or the other. I suspect May will try and do her old trick of trying to jump both ways at the same time and continue to please no one but make a right hash of everything as she's too weak to make a decision.

Johnson is now the Anti-Churchill to May's Anti-Thatcher. Frankly I think we are now just awaiting the arrival of the Anti-Christ.

Brexit is a mess of May's making. Whether you like it or not, there were ways it could have been done. May is ensuring the end result will just be disastrous one way or another.

Oh missed the new thread!

Re posting form the old one
www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/16/european-union-frustration-britain-heading-for-brexit-rocks

Interesting article looking at what is going on with Brexit.
Two things that stand out for me.
One is that the uk (esp the uk press) seems convinced that it's Barrier and co that takes decisions on how Brexit is going when actually the MEP have a heel of a lot of influence, incl deciding whether we can start talks on trade négociations.
Second is that it's all about money.
However, the EU27 do want greater confidence that the UK is not going to leave them with a giant hole in their finances in the immediate years after Brexit, said Vasco Cal, a former economic adviser in the commission.

“Whatever Britain fails to pay, Germany will have to pay,” said Cal. “I think the UK is looking to hold out on an offer of money until the end, when they will agree to pay for their commitments made in the past but not for access to the internal market during the transition period. The idea being that there will be so much relief among the EU that it will be accepted. It’s a gamble, of course. It could go wrong.”

If you feel your European "Citizenship" is being stripped away without your consent, you do have options.

Yes oppose Brexit. And point out how much bullshit is being spouted. And try and encourage the government to allow British citizens to remind EU citizens.

King not being white and being married to someone who isn't white doesn't stop anyone to be small minded. Or to refuse to see the issues right in not of them. Or to be able to LISTEN to other people and accept that their experience is different from yours.