Westminstenders: The Maddest of May and Boris's Dare

[RedToothBrush]

Boris Johnson just dared May to fire him.

That's what his little rant about £350 million buses is.

Meanwhile its been pointed out that HMRC literally are incapable of handling a no deal and can only cope with an EEA / EFTA deal with no tariffs.

And given how good and on time the government are with computer systems even in a best case scenario are extremely unlikely to crack it in time.

Which makes Hammond's talk of a civil contingence plan, look, well half arsed and lacking.

We also wouldn't have planes able to fly to Europe under a no deal as we would no longer be part of Open Skies. This could leave thousands stranded. But no biggie there.

Meanwhile if the Leave Alliance have things right, May is about to serve our one year notice on leaving the EEA making all these things a reality.

Which is less like shooting yourself in the head and more like shooting yourself in the head, chest, foot, arm, leg and face (for a second time), whilst being run over at the same time.

But hey, Boris Johnson has it sussed in his 10 point plan. Especially the point where he says Brexit will be a success.

If you call success ending democracy, becoming a dictatorship, starving everyone, bankrupting the country and causing civil unrest.

Rule Britannia.

Had a lawyer friend over a few nights ago who couldn't see why I was concerned about the Repel Bill.

"But it's very short and the powers are only necessary in order to bring EU legislation within the UK parliament's jurisdiction. There is no way the Government would abuse those powers. and I'm not interested in the fact that it includes a clause saying a Government Minister can change any Act, including this one "

She's a Remainer too but of the ilk that says, "it's going to happen so there's no point complaining".

Fortunately, another lawyer friend came round on Friday and restored my faith in the legal profession, saying I was right to be concerned about the legislation. And dh reminded me that our friend (who we like really ) is a wee Scottish Tory for whom the Tory Party can do no wrong. it would be a different matter if it had been the Labour Party putting forward the legislation

Blatant place mat king and vent .

Presumably they took it for granted that they were free to come out with ignorant bigotry as long as the other person in the lift was "British" angry

ron :(:(:(
And unfortunately also my experience. That sort of attitude has been the reason why I actually left a job and a country. The attitude of the Brits I was working for/with towards the people form that country made me sick.

It doesn't quit's give the bitsish a good name does it?
Not even at home

Not being a lawyer, but I would have thought that the Repel Bill could have a clause restricting powers to only bringing EU laws into UK laws. We don't need the stuff about Govt Ministers changing things on a whim. And as you say, the Tories would be screaming blue murder if Labour suggested it.

Great posts everyone, with one obvious exception.

Welcome back whatwouldrondo

Anyone got any good strategies for calling out casual racism like you experienced?

A lot of young adult friends' kids and family members are still moving to work and live in EU, so many more opportunities there.

Legatum, some extracts:

Legatum Limited, also known as Legatum, is a private investment firm founded by New Zealand billionaire Christopher Chandler, headquartered in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. With a long-term perspective, Legatum invests proprietary capital in global capital markets.

The Legatum Institute, together with the Centre for Social Justice, are considered to be the organisations central to the Conservative party's case for Hard Brexit They have proposed using Unmanned Aerial Vehicles as one means to help solve the Republic of Ireland - Northern Ireland border issue post-Brexit

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legatum.

The Legatum Institute is not pro Leave or pro Remain. We are pro a prosperous future for this nation and we owe it to all the people of the UK – regardless of how they voted in the referendum - to achieve the best Brexit possible.

www.li.com/activities/publications/mutual-interest-how-the-uk-and-eu-can-resolve-the-irish-border-issue-after-brexit

Fluffy lexical choices in their own documents about NI, and NO mention of GFI.

best brexit is another semantic tell I'm noticing in ultra conservative speech.

MPs don't get paid that well, relative to the interests some of them seem to think they are delegates for........................... I don't mean constituents.

Interesting article in the Times about the Boris intervention.

'He seemed highly exercised by claims that he had lied during the campaign... he insisted he didn't lie' ... 'Allies say he knows he will be judged on the outcome of Brexit and that even he is growing concerned that all is not going to plan. Knowing he will have 'own the outcome', Johnson has grown frustrated in recent weeks that he was not being consulted about what it should be.'

The poor little lambkin has lost friends over the referendum, and has even had awkward moments at dinner parties...

Kevin Schofield @ polhomeeditor
Amber Rudd accuses Boris Johnson on "back seat driving" - "I'd expect nothing less from Boris." Cabinet split from top to bottom. #marr

Tom Newton Dunn@ tnewtondunn
Amber Rudd says Ruth Davidson "has a point" about Boris's poor timing for his Brexit article. "You could call it back seat driving" #Marr

Tim Shipman @shippersunbound
Was Boris's piece a helpful intervention? Rudd: "Time will tell..."

Jessica Eglot @ JessicaEglot
"He, like I, is supporting the prime minister at this difficult time." Rudd makes it sounds like there's been a death! #marr

Tom Newton Dunn @ tnewtondunn
Amber Rudd: "We are delivering for the 52%, but we don't want to cut off the 48%". And that in a nutshell is the big Cabinet split #Marr

Tim Shipman @ shippersunbound
Amber Rudd now rivaling Ruth Davidson as Boris basher in chief. Does stern very well

Norman Smith @ BBCnormans
"What we have seen from Boris is what we are used to" - Amber Rudd. Indeed . @MarrShow

Sebastian Payne @ SebastianEPayne
RIP Conservative party unity over Brexit June 2017 - September 2017 #marr

Simon the Stylite @ SimeOnStylites
Amber Rudd on Boris "I don't want him managing the Brexit process" #marr

George Eaton @ Georgeeaton
More than a year after the EU referendum, the Tories still can't agree what Brexit means.
The government is negotiating with itself, rather than the EU.

Tim Montgomerie @ montie
Top performance by @AmberRuddHR #marr

Kevin Schofield @ polhomeeditor
Amber Rudd on Boris Johnson's contribution to the Cabinet: "Enthusiasm, energy and sometimes entertainment." #marr

Well, on BJ, don't forget Chappers is back in town.

See this
IdontlooklikeEmmaWatson Sun 17-Sep-17 08:49:33
Peregrina you are completely right, I agree with you. Brexit is an impossibility

Talk about Leavers having their head in the sand!

After the Referendum Result, the petitions, the marches, the legal challenge by Gina Mills, Jolyon What'sHisName bringing the case in the Irish High Court, the vote in Parliament to trigger Article 50, the formal triggering of A50 and the stopwatch ticking away, the repeal of the 1972 act, taking on EU Law on to the UK Statute books.... etc. etc.

The last desperate refuge of the Rabid Remainer is to take comfort in the hope "It is impossible. It just won't happen".

Denial is not only a river in Egypt,

Well said, Red. My issue with Brexit is mainly about young people in the UK. Many were too young to vote in the Referendum. My DDs have a lot of friends - bright young people - from families who are struggling financially. due to the tuition fees system in the UK with its extortionate interest rate on loans, many of them have abandoned university as an option. And now they will no longer be able to study in the many great EU universities, where tuition fees are either much lower or non-existent.

My DDs have options. So, eventually, do I. Once DD2 has completed her A-levels in 4 years' time, we will absolutely be looking at making those options a reality. My DDs' friends no longer have those choices - they will be locked into the closed-minded xenophobic country the UK has become.

And what happens when the older tranche of the Brexit brigade dies off? It won't take long. But it will still be too late and the damage will have been done.

Didn't see the Marr Show like my bed too much on a Sunday morning but did Marr challenge her on her contempt of court with regard to the illegal deportation? And if not, why not?

Simon the Stylite @ SimeOnStylites

1. Some thoughts re Teresa May’s much anticipated European "partnership" speech in Florence.
2. First, let’s appreciate the tragic irony of the EU location. In 18 months, they’ll presumably need visas. FoM...Ah well.
3. Everyone is busily speculating about the content of the speech but clearly nobody knows. It's probably not finished.
4. My personal view is that only two sources of info are helpful. The Lanc House speech and Nick Timothy’s recent column in the Sun.
5. As we know by now, the PM’s not for changing her mind.
6. Not after a disastrous GE - pitched as a mandate for her Brexit leadership .
7. And not despite the overwhelming evidence of the unfeasibility and sheer disastrousness of her 3 red line approach to Brexit.
8. So expect a “partnership” speech with “British characteristics”. (ht to @APHClarkson )
9. By which I mean, a little concession and alot of speech.

10. There’ll be much happy talk about the “deep and special” partnership and the shared interest in a trade deal. 11. There’ll also be a long and studious recounting of all the negotiation progress made. 12. Sure, the national hat will be tipped at payments but with no numbers... 13. and with the quid pro quo to the future relationship discussion maintained. 14. And sure, there’ll be talk of a transition period, albeit one with “British characteristics”, of which assume immig control will be key. 15. I’d like to think the UK would extend the simple olive branch of agreeing to most of the EU’s position re citz rights. But I doubt it. 16. Perhaps we’ll throw enhanced intel coop into the mix. Maybe soft promise re immig policy wrt EU immigrants. 17. Needless to say, a speech like this will not go down well with our European colleagues. The divide and rule approach is fantasy. 18. I hope I’m wrong. I hope we see something that's actually “fair and generous”. But where’s the evidence for that? / ends

So so so much wrong here

See these are the kind of comments that I think sum up the MN Remain lobby. I am of immigrant stock myself. And before any tells me I am a racist, I am brown skinned and have a spouse of a different race.
Don't lobby me into a racist group but btw I'm shoving you lot together into one group exactly the same and I have every right to abuse you as such

I want a healthy, sustainable level of immigration to the UK from all over the world - not just 27 countries that happen to be closer to us. But a nation without borders is not a nation. We need controlled numbers and be able to focus on skills we can't find or train here.
Immigration has never been uncontrolled. Britain is not borderless. What do you think the border force do? Just wander around. Maybe educate yourself on some basics rather than dm sound bites.

My parents came to this country because of its values of tolerance, fairness and the rule of law and order. I am deeply proud to be British. I love Europe (the continent) and Europeans (many of the people). But I hate the institution of the EU (which is flawed by design and corrupt).
Most of us remember the no blacks, no Irish days. Of latter days like 2012 we nearly hit tolerance. But never fairness, as numerous home office dodgy dealings will show. Also your dm sound bites smack of exceptional intolerance.

If you feel your European "Citizenship" is being stripped away without your consent, you do have options.
Yes. The same option that was open to leavers for the last 40 years. You didn't fuck off and, as much as his upsets you, we won't either. Because we want the actual tolerant society that is claimed, not the one where it's only tolerant to people of certain skin tones, accents or qualifications.

We're still doing the "why don't you leave?" with a bit of disingenuous wide-eyed head-tilting, I see. I suppose it's an argument, if that sort of thing floats one's boat.

My parents came to this country because of its values of tolerance, fairness and the rule of law and order. I am deeply proud to be British.

What you fail to understand is that there are those of us, born in the U.K. (thought not in Britain) whose identity is not British. We were born into a civil war, and experienced the direct effects of economic, political and social discrimination on the basis of our religion. Twenty years ago the Belfast Agreement confirmed our right to choose to be identified as "British, or Irish, or both," and ended the civil war.

Increasingly, since the referendum, people like you are telling people like me that because we don't identify as British we should leave the country we were born in. Some of us are lucky enough to have that as an option. Many others are still caught in the poverty resulting from discrimination, and do not. But whether or not we have the wherewithal to relocate, we do not have to. We have as much right to live in the UK, and on the same terms, as you do.

The fact that you suggested I leave means that you are either incredibly ignorant about a major part of the history of the country you claim to be so proud of, or that you have anti-Irish prejudice.

RedToothBrush Sun 17-Sep-17 09:26:43
Try and encourage the government to allow British citizens to remind EU citizens.

Remain EU Citizens? AFAIK there is no such thing as an EU Citizen, when I complete your landing card in any non-EU country, when they ask citizenship - I have to write British (even while we are in the EU). I assume French, Germans, Italians etc still retain the citizenship of the member state - not of the EU because the EU is not a state (yet).

In future, when we are out of the UK and the EU does become one state, with one President, I guess there would have to be a bilateral agreement if the UK and EU would allow dual nationality. Some pairs of countries allow this. Many don't. I wouldn't hold my breath for British Citizens being able to hold dual British / EU Citizenship.

I know this won't please all the MNers with villas on the Algarve

pointythings Sun 17-Sep-17 09:50:44
And what happens when the older tranche of the Brexit brigade dies off? It won't take long

Pointythings I am not the superstitious type... But there are many cultures where it is believed that wishing another person to die off, is a curse that comes back on the person wishing it....

I hope you, all of your family, friends, colleagues and loved ones have long, happy, healthy and prosperous lives - wherever they choose to live.

It's probably not finished.

As you said, about the Lancaster House one, she has to wait for her boss Dacre, and others to deliver it to her.

She gets to do the 'talking out loud' bit.

@jameschappers
I think @SadiqKhan has a couple of expensive and unused water cannon left by last occupant of City Hall,

@Ouch1953
From a Circus cannon I suggest...

We've been through this before but I'll give the benefit of the doubt - and for the sake of the lurkers who might genuinely want to be informed - but as Kilgore said "AFAIK there is no such thing as EU citizenship", I will educate him/her.

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/citizen/

It has existed explicitly since the Lisbon Treat of 2007 and is conferred automatically on all citizens of EU member countries. It is additional to and does not replace national citizenship.

AFAIK there is no such thing as an EU Citizen

There's no such thing as gravity as I can see it.

EU citizenship exists. You might not like it and it might not be like other forms of citizenship, but its real and I'm not hallucinating.

@jameschappers
.@theresa_may must fire @BorisJohnson on Monday morning or suffer terminal loss of authority, @vincecable tells #marr, correctly

I don't think Chandler, Dacre, Baker et al are all bowling for the same team.

The ultra conservatives hate each other much more, even than the british.

Taking away our EU citizenship is not on option. It will not pass.

And quicker than you can shout

BRITISH VETO

You have a European State

(which neglects to talk about how it also sounds rather attractive compared to our own leadership, given the sheer level of incompetence and lack of democracy. But WOOO at least we get to wave a flag whilst we starve and face civil unrest)

Somerville Sun 17-Sep-17 10:00:41
What you fail to understand is that there are those of us, born in the U.K. (thought not in Britain) whose identity is not British.
I would say United Kingdomish if there was such a word (while I still can).

Twenty years ago the Belfast Agreement confirmed our right to choose to be identified as "British, or Irish, or both," and ended the civil war.
Which do you prefer?

Increasingly, since the referendum, people like you are telling people like me that because we don't identify as British we should leave the country we were born in.
Can you show me exactly where I suggested that??

The fact that you suggested I leave again, when/ where did I suggest this?

means that you are either incredibly ignorant about a major part of the history of the country you claim to be so proud of, or that you have anti-Irish prejudice. Nope. Not true. Love the Irish and Ireland. It is my spiritual homeland.

Wanting to leave and being able to leave are two different things...
I also desperately want to shag marry most of the cast of game of thrones....thats quite unlikely to happen too 😔

Just moving the contents of my handbag into another one, and my passport was open on this page.

Another entry for the 'what have the eu ever done for us?'
Provided us consular assistance it seems