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Brexit

Westminstenders: The beginning of the dictatorship and the end of Boris?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2017 10:55

Brexit is being fought in the UK media and parliament on the premise that the EU is being difficult and obstructive.

The fallacy can not be understated.

What the UK fails to understand is the right of the EU to put their own interests before the UKs. It doesn't under that our demands cannot be met even if the EU wanted to for practical and legal reasons - not political ones because our understanding of the situation and law is so poor.

The net result is the slippage of the next phase of Brexit talks being pushed to Christmas by the EU due to lack of progress by the UK. Barnier is open to more regular and intense talks but this is bad news for the UK with the a50 clock ticking.

The main stumbling block is NI a with Barnier warning not to use the border as a way to test EU resolve. Brexit always about the NI border. The UK have never provided a solution to the EU that does not produce a hard border. The idea being pushed by the UK will create one despite claiming it won't. The reality is the only viable solutions are either staying in the single market and customs union or NI being granted special status and being different to the rest of the country. The former is opposed by the government, the later opposed by the DUP.

The DUP are getting a taste of their own medicine. They have been warned that Assembly Members might have pay frozen and if they don't reform Stormont they won't get their Billion Pound Booty. Plus Ian Paisley Jr just found a new scandal for the party.

May is trying to channel Venezuela by getting rid of democracy when it suits. The Great Repel Bill (aka as the Withdrawal Bill) faces it's challenge. The much feared Henry VIII in clause 9 are not only facing criticism from Remainers but also from the secretive crackpots of Tory Bastard Club (aka ERG). The TBC want hard cliff edge Brexit. May seems to support given her goodwill burning interference at the Home Office which seeks to discriminate against all foreigners and make them sign a register. The visa system and how it will attract much needed staff for the NHS makes the mind boggle.

The Repel Bill also could end the possibility of transition due to clause 6 which requires us to leave the ECJ. Given the May's ambition to make EU citizens display their stars in job applications this is totally unable to the EU. If it passes the chances of transition drop dramatically. Bye bye Smooth and Orderly.

Then there is the May-Bot paradox: the one were she gives a friendly speech to the EU and a nasty on to the Swivel Eyed Loon gathering. As if neither will be reported to the other audience.

On top of this May is attempting the Parliament Rigging Act as she has a 'majority Government'. Yep I know, this is the general election version of 'will of the people'. The Rigging Act seeks to stack parliamentary committees with Tory majorities so they can stop any bill they don't like getting anywhere need the main chamber this limiting the power of opposition to irrelevant. Sadly I think this one will get through due to maths of the HoC atm.

We shouldn't forget the role of the HoL though and the lack of a majority government (why do you think May is saying majority government? It's down to the Sewell convention and trying to make the case it applies when the argument is it doesn't for a minority government).

The other development is the rumours that Boris is for the boot. And Rees-Mogg might get a promotion.

OP posts:
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RedToothBrush · 16/09/2017 22:23

Nick Reeves - 48%‏*@nickreeves9876*
In the 1956 Suez crisis a Britain with a hugely inflated sense of its power was brought crashing down by the USA.

We are at this point in Brexit. In case anyone hasn't grasped it.

May hasn't. Which seeing as she's PM is a 'little bit' troubling.

Westminstenders: The beginning of the dictatorship and the end of Boris?
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pointythings · 16/09/2017 22:24

Obviously no-one, trout Hmm. But as a very obvious Leaver, would you trust this government to do right by its EU immigrants? Would you really?

TheElementsSong · 16/09/2017 22:27

Oh dear pointy you're in big trouble with Boris's shock troop (singular) for displaying incorrect loyalties Grin

KilgoreTroutV · 16/09/2017 22:28

Today 21:21 Somerville

Here's another one..

There are several really sensible reasons to get an Irish passport, even aside from Brexit. One is that as a neutral country, an Irish passport is really great for travel. It makes it less likely to be caught up in targeted terrorism. Of course this is pretty darn unlikely to begin with, so perhaps more pertinently, people the world over are friendly and helpful to Irish passport holders in a way they aren't to Brits

So what keeps you here?

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2017 22:29

I've also been posting how I see the similarity to Suez, the puncturing of UK delusions of power

TheElementsSong · 16/09/2017 22:31

So what keeps you here?

Oh here we go here we go here we go...🎵🎶 Grin

KilgoreTroutV · 16/09/2017 22:33

Today 22:24 pointythings

Obviously no-one, trout hmm. But as a very obvious Leaver, would you trust this government to do right by its EU immigrants? Would you really?

What are your options?

DrivenToDespair · 16/09/2017 22:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2017 22:37

Oho, so Brexit critics should leave ....
or is that anyone furrin ?

Difficult for those who made their life here 20 years ago, have jobs, kids here in school
On the basis that the UK was an EU member

I'm British, but I emigrated to Germany last July
Part of the Brexit braindrain of UK scientists
which is really ramping up now

KilgoreTroutV · 16/09/2017 22:41

Today 22:31 TheElementsSong

So what keeps you here?
Reasonable question, especially if someone wants to avoid "shitty British citizenship". I am of immigrant stock myself. I would like EU citizens who are already here to be able to stay in the UK - but only if they want to. Nobody is being forced to stay here - especially if they think it's "shitty" to be a British citizen

HashiAsLarry · 16/09/2017 22:44

All this time later and the only answer to scrutiny is to tell people to leave.
Why didn't they all leave? They've had 40 years to do it Grin

Dc fully in school from next week so going to source a solicitor to sign off on their Irish birth register forms. Dh may have a slight buried head in sand mode, but thankfully he wants the dc to have any option open to them.

somerville awful stuff re school.

KilgoreTroutV · 16/09/2017 22:44

BigChoc
I'm British, but I emigrated to Germany last July. Part of the Brexit braindrain of UK scientists

Do you think we might able to cope without you?

SwedishEdith · 16/09/2017 22:46

Will be doing the same Hashi re my own Irish FBR. Principle innit, now.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2017 22:46

The UK is haemorhaging talent, native UK, E27, rest of the world
Scientists, doctors, other HCPs, financial services ......
Not coming back

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2017 22:48

It is shitty to be a British citizen.

People might think you think Brexit is a good idea.

Anyway, new thread before this one gets filled.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3035578-Westminstenders-The-Maddest-of-May-and-Boriss-Dare?watched=1

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QuentinSummers · 16/09/2017 22:52

Do you think we might able to cope without you? How rude Confused I'm sure bigchoc couldn't give a flying one what your thoughts are.

I'm jealous choc. Wish I could leave too at the moment. What has happened to the UK Sad

QuentinSummers · 16/09/2017 22:54

Actually I am feeling a bit better now all of a sudden, as I've remembered an upsurge in Brexit bots usually means things are going badly in Brexit land. Wonder what May is going to say.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2017 22:54

Without me, yes
(although great shortage in my field and I've won 2 international prizes, gained several patents)

Without 1000s of other scientists, doctors ......
Any country would suffer after a brain drain

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2017 22:58

More Brexit Logic.

Anyone who thinks Brexit is shit should leave.

Without a plan of how they might all be able to do that.

Do you think we might able to cope without you?

Well given the proportion of Leave Voters v Remain Voters and how that breaks down into age, in work / retired, income, educational and professional split. No, the UK couldn't cope.

Much as you might not like it, leavers need remainers more than we need you!

HTH.

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RedToothBrush · 16/09/2017 23:00

Actually I am feeling a bit better now all of a sudden, as I've remembered an upsurge in Brexit bots usually means things are going badly in Brexit land.

Funny isn't it.

They just want to deflect from the HMRC point that if we leave we are UTTERLY FUCKED.

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HashiAsLarry · 16/09/2017 23:01

Fry and Laurie circa 1990
Sound familiar?

HUGH LAURIE: [reading] “England is great and much better than any other country in … ”
[he turns the pamphlet over]
HUGH LAURIE: “The world.”
MR. TWEED: There. You see?
HUGH LAURIE: This is ridiculous!
MRS. PERT: Oh, it’s ridiculous, is it? It doesn’t agree with his pet theories, so it’s ridiculous!
MR. TWEED: Thank you, Misses Pert. Sir, I am a librarian, but I am also an Englishman. To be blunt, I am an Englishman who merely happens to be a librarian. If, God forbid, the day should come when I would have to choose between being a librarian and being an Englishman …
HUGH LAURIE: Yes yes yes, I think I got the idea. Yeah.
MR. TWEED: Good. Because, may I say that I find your continued efforts to drag down and smear this country of ours to be frankly disgusting.
HUGH LAURIE: I’m not trying to smear and drag down anybody!
MR. TWEED: I suppose you’d rather read books about England losing at cricket than winning, wouldn’t you?
HUGH LAURIE: Well yes, if it’s true …
MR. TWEED: Then I feel sorry for you, sir.
MRS. PERT: He’s a knocker, that’s what he is.
MR. TWEED: I agree with you, Misses Pert.
MRS. PERT: Oh, it’s very easy to knock, isn’t it? You with your snide university ways …
HUGH LAURIE: Snide university?
MRS. PERT: Or wherever it is you went …
MR. TWEED: So often these days, sir, we see – don’t we – these so called clever people who just can’t wait to tear down and destroy …
MRS. PERT: And knock.
MR. TWEED: And knock, yes. But do they ever have anything to put in the place of the things that they destroy? No, it’s wanton destruction–
[as the librarian continues babbling, Hugh turns and address the camera directly]
HUGH LAURIE: Well yes, it’s a bit of an exaggeration, but sometimes you really have to wonder what’s happening to this country, you do …

thecatfromjapan · 16/09/2017 23:01

Grin @ Quentin .

(And a hug for the other thread I've spotted you on.)

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2017 23:03

This 2012 article on Bojo lays bear some of his many faults - and what a change in his fanclub since

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/10/boris-johnson-unfit-to-be-prime-minister

His threat to May is empty. DD is a much more likely replacement

Somerville · 16/09/2017 23:05

Somerville... So what keeps you here?

Oh merely the shits and giggles of filling your country with little Irish babies.

Or it could be that I have dependants half way through crucial exams and an established business that it is taking time to relocate. Oh, and that said dependants aren't ready to leave the locality where their father is buried.

You choose.

SwedishEdith · 16/09/2017 23:06

I don't know whether the Norths help or hinder their cause by being so unpleasant but PN is spot on here.

Pete North‏ @PeteNorth303 10h10 hours ago

  1. I struggle to give a rats ass about Boris Johnson. Can't think of anything that matters less.

  2. The fact is, what he thinks about Brexit is not a million miles away from the administration we have now.

  3. We shouldn't be wasting a nanosecond on this pointless decoy, nor should we allow him to set the agenda.

  4. More to the point, whoever leads, the Tory party's new owners (The Legatum Institute) will not deviate from their plan.

  5. They are already calling the shots and there is no reason to expect this will change even if May goes.

  6. Doesn't take the Scooby Gang to work out there's an agenda at work - supported by Tory useful idiots.

  7. It's no coincidence that UK position papers broadly reflect Legatum briefings. And they will get away with it.

  8. You would think this would be bigger news than it is, but Legatum is perfectly capable of buying silence.

  9. At one time this level of corruption would bring a government down - but only the blogs are making noises.

  10. We have a Dubai-based multi-billionaire suddenly funding his pet think tank to the tune of £4m a year in order to push a hard Brexit

  11. From which he stands to make billions - and nobody is saying anything of note about it.

  12. Most of the hacks are too cowardly/bovine to say anything and Editors won't risk it.

  13. If we had a functioning media there would also be an investigation of the relationship Steve Baker MP has with Legatum et al.

  14. Quite a few of the Brexit gestapo are on the payroll of private interests. Owen Paterson for starters.

  15. But then you are not supposed to mention these things. It's impolite, you see. There is an unspoken Westminster code.

  16. And media loses what little access they have if they start doing actual journalism and rocking the boat.

  17. Everybody knows what's going on. It's an open secret. The Times knows, The Telegraph is probably in on it, the other think tanks know

  18. And for all they tell me I would get further if I wasn't so abrasive, where has being polite got you???...

  19. The Legatum snake coiled around the throat of government without a whimper of protest. That's where.

  20. Makes me wonder why people bothered to get into journalism if they are not going to speak out on this.

  21. Legatum must be rubbing their hands with glee that once again Boris Johnson is the focus of your attention.

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