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Brexit

Westminstenders: The beginning of the dictatorship and the end of Boris?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2017 10:55

Brexit is being fought in the UK media and parliament on the premise that the EU is being difficult and obstructive.

The fallacy can not be understated.

What the UK fails to understand is the right of the EU to put their own interests before the UKs. It doesn't under that our demands cannot be met even if the EU wanted to for practical and legal reasons - not political ones because our understanding of the situation and law is so poor.

The net result is the slippage of the next phase of Brexit talks being pushed to Christmas by the EU due to lack of progress by the UK. Barnier is open to more regular and intense talks but this is bad news for the UK with the a50 clock ticking.

The main stumbling block is NI a with Barnier warning not to use the border as a way to test EU resolve. Brexit always about the NI border. The UK have never provided a solution to the EU that does not produce a hard border. The idea being pushed by the UK will create one despite claiming it won't. The reality is the only viable solutions are either staying in the single market and customs union or NI being granted special status and being different to the rest of the country. The former is opposed by the government, the later opposed by the DUP.

The DUP are getting a taste of their own medicine. They have been warned that Assembly Members might have pay frozen and if they don't reform Stormont they won't get their Billion Pound Booty. Plus Ian Paisley Jr just found a new scandal for the party.

May is trying to channel Venezuela by getting rid of democracy when it suits. The Great Repel Bill (aka as the Withdrawal Bill) faces it's challenge. The much feared Henry VIII in clause 9 are not only facing criticism from Remainers but also from the secretive crackpots of Tory Bastard Club (aka ERG). The TBC want hard cliff edge Brexit. May seems to support given her goodwill burning interference at the Home Office which seeks to discriminate against all foreigners and make them sign a register. The visa system and how it will attract much needed staff for the NHS makes the mind boggle.

The Repel Bill also could end the possibility of transition due to clause 6 which requires us to leave the ECJ. Given the May's ambition to make EU citizens display their stars in job applications this is totally unable to the EU. If it passes the chances of transition drop dramatically. Bye bye Smooth and Orderly.

Then there is the May-Bot paradox: the one were she gives a friendly speech to the EU and a nasty on to the Swivel Eyed Loon gathering. As if neither will be reported to the other audience.

On top of this May is attempting the Parliament Rigging Act as she has a 'majority Government'. Yep I know, this is the general election version of 'will of the people'. The Rigging Act seeks to stack parliamentary committees with Tory majorities so they can stop any bill they don't like getting anywhere need the main chamber this limiting the power of opposition to irrelevant. Sadly I think this one will get through due to maths of the HoC atm.

We shouldn't forget the role of the HoL though and the lack of a majority government (why do you think May is saying majority government? It's down to the Sewell convention and trying to make the case it applies when the argument is it doesn't for a minority government).

The other development is the rumours that Boris is for the boot. And Rees-Mogg might get a promotion.

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BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2017 23:08

Just how are HMRC’s IT systems going to cope with Brexit?
Answers on a postcard, please

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/15/justhowwarehmrcssitsystemssgoingtoocopewithh_brexit/?mt=1505558396861

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2017 23:10

Who voted Legatum to run the country ? Hmm

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2017 23:13

16. And media loses what little access they have if they start doing actual journalism and rocking the boat.

17. Everybody knows what's going on. It's an open secret. The Times knows, The Telegraph is probably in on it, the other think tanks know

20. Makes me wonder why people bothered to get into journalism if they are not going to speak out on this.

What have I been saying since June last year?

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BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2017 23:30

JDD, the senior civil servant who posts on R North's thread, posted 10hrs ago::

"I'm off to Florence on orders, why I don't know^ but^
A huge announcement with Parliament in recess?
Not looking good"

then

"Just remember people this is not just EU
This is a UK global problem
50% + of our exports are not to the EU
No Customs Agreements at all on leaving

How long before Martial Law?

7 days" Shock
< I keep wondering when she'll get sacked >

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2017 23:39

Who is stocking up this week?

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RedToothBrush · 16/09/2017 23:40

I've said before that trump wants martial law. Same logic easily applies to May.

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MsHooliesCardigan · 17/09/2017 01:11

Somervile Completely irrelevant to the thread but just wanted to say that I have followed your threads with Mr Lovely and am so happy for you that you have a new baby. You're a total inspiration. Disclaimer: am slightly drunk.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2017 01:22

Irish food producers unimpressed by UK govt performance

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-food-producers-gloomy-about-potentially-devastating-brexit-1.3219841

The EU was “negotiating with people who don’t seem to have done any of their homework”

business people in Ireland “have been hoping for a long time that the UK government would get sense,
and I think it is only gradually dawning on people that it is not going to get sense”.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2017 01:31

The Lure of Greatness (best Brexit book so far)

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/brexit/the-lure-of-greatness-the-best-book-about-brexit-so-far-1.3215931
....
The core of Barnett’s thesis is that the Brexit vote was a form of displacement, rage at the failure of Britain being deflected on to the EU:

“English hostility to the European Union is based on a delusion of its influence, linked to a nihilistic sense of the futility of Westminster

… being deprived of a credible, representative power that clearly belongs to you leads to anger with the most remote authority of all,
which is blamed as the source of your powerlessness…

Unable to exit Britain, the English did the next best thing and told the EU to ‘fuck off’…”
....
support for Brexit in this non-metropolitan England, contrary to so much glib analysis, was not confined to the “left behind”.

It stretched from the comfortable Home Counties to the hard scrabble former mining valleys, encompassing both rich and poor.
It was a genuine nationalist revolt.

TheElementsSong · 17/09/2017 05:20

i see we escalated the "why haven't you left yet, you traitor?" overnight. Oh dear oh dear Grin

Cailleach1 · 17/09/2017 08:15

I am surprised (not) that someone has said to someone from NI that they should leave the UK if they identify as Irish. On foot of the GFA, the only nationality available for people born in the UK is not British. The UK recognises the right to choose either Irish or British for people from NI. This was not linked to any loss of the rights to someone born in it's jurisdiction. It was meant to be a parity of esteem.

Discriminating against someone who identifies as one of the Nationalities recognised by the UK for someone born in it's jurisdiction goes even further than discriminating against someone from another country, even one of the other 27 member states.

Congratulations on the new baby Somerville.

Who voted Legatum to run the country ?

Surprised you don't know that. You are disrespecting the 52% of the population who researched everything thoroughly and knew every outcome. So it makes sense that this outcome was what people voted for. You could probably do away with general elections. May recognises the EU referendum gave the Cons a majority to carry out the will of the people and suspend parliament. So any subsequent general election was rightly ignored. The GE is only advisory, you see. Not like the referendum.

Badders08 · 17/09/2017 08:42

New baby!!??
What have I missed!!??
Huge congrats Somerville x

Peregrina · 17/09/2017 08:46

The link in the Irish Times is probably the best analysis that I have seen why Brexit was voted for.

Badders08 · 17/09/2017 08:47

Agree

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2017 09:08

Congratulations on your lo, Somerville Flowers Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2017 09:12

Ah, now I understand, Cailleach

one person, one vote - once per lifetime

so the UK now has Mugabe style democracy

EternalOptimistToo · 17/09/2017 09:14

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/16/european-union-frustration-britain-heading-for-brexit-rocks

Interesting article looking at what is going on with Brexit.
Two things that stand out for me.
One is that the uk (esp the uk press) seems convinced that it's Barrier and co that takes decisions on how Brexit is going when actually the MEP have a heel of a lot of influence, incl deciding whether we can start talks on trade négociations.
Second is that it's all about money.
However, the EU27 do want greater confidence that the UK is not going to leave them with a giant hole in their finances in the immediate years after Brexit, said Vasco Cal, a former economic adviser in the commission.

“Whatever Britain fails to pay, Germany will have to pay,” said Cal. “I think the UK is looking to hold out on an offer of money until the end, when they will agree to pay for their commitments made in the past but not for access to the internal market during the transition period. The idea being that there will be so much relief among the EU that it will be accepted. It’s a gamble, of course. It could go wrong.”

EternalOptimistToo · 17/09/2017 09:15

Re Legatum.
That's te issue YOU have when the press isn't strong or free in a country. That sort of things should have been out a long time ago.

KilgoreTroutV · 17/09/2017 09:34

BigChocFrenzy Sat 16-Sep-17 22:54:48
Without me, yes (although great shortage in my field and I've won 2 international prizes, gained several patents)

Without 1000s of other scientists, doctors ......Any country would suffer after a brain drain

I have heard this so often over the years. I have a feeling that great people will always want to get to the UK. Even after Brexit, I suspect that if you asked the average migrant crossing the European continent where they would like to reach, I suspect the UK (or perhaps just England by then) will be high on their list.

We are and will remain an attractive place to live for people from all over the globe - not just 27 countries on our doorstep. This is a far, far less racist country than France, Belgium, Bulgaria, Romania or Poland.

TheElementsSong · 17/09/2017 09:37

There's a new baby? Congratulations Somerville! Flowers

Somerville · 17/09/2017 10:13

Thanks, all. Flowers

HashiAsLarry · 17/09/2017 10:16

Even after Brexit, I suspect that if you asked the average migrant crossing the European continent where they would like to reach, I suspect the UK (or perhaps just England by then) will be high on their list.
Despite the actual fact, I know facts aren't high on your radar clearly, that most migrants 'crossing the European continent' that'd be the non Europeans the number of which we allowed in higher than that of eu nationals have been aiming mainly for Germany for a few years now.
But don't let the facts stop the jingoism

HashiAsLarry · 17/09/2017 10:19

Congrats somerville
Lovely news

HashiAsLarry · 17/09/2017 10:19

[[http://Westminstenders: The Maddest of May and Boris's Dare
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eureferendum2016_/3035578-Westminstenders-The-Maddest-of-May-and-Boriss-Dare]]
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