Has anybody changed their mind about how they voted?

[fakenamefornow]

It seems not many people have?

TheElementsSong

The semantics of the English language.

Read today that the NHS has started actively recruiting in Asia to replace EU workers. This will of course cost a lot more because the NHS will have to pay for visas etc. I can't wait to tell my mum this, well, if it's correct.

Oh OK.

So, just to be clear, if a post refers to "Brexit" (note: the offensive post in question didn't actually say "Brexiteers" at all) and "ending FOM" in context, one would be reasonably expected to conclude that the post in question must refer to everyone regardless of whether they voted in order to end FOM or not, unless the post included the word "some"?

TheElementsSong

If we are really going to do this.

It is entirely possible, that given the lack of vocal nuance, that a written sentence could be interpreted to have several meanings.

You posted Brexit as a thing with a consequence, and I took it as a thing and an implied generalised meaning.

Let me just state that I want to end FOM but do not want to end immigration and am not anti foreigner. So I certainly do not cheer the situation we have where EU citizens or any other people are leaving the UK or feel unwelcome.
I will repeat that there is another alternative view. I find FOM for EU citizens racist in that it discriminates against most races and religions not indigenous to Europe. In other words it favours white Christians of which EU citizens are the majority.

I want to see a system where everyone, no matter where in the world they come from is given an equal chance of coming here if they want to.

Elements, you said:
Surely every foreigner who leaves is a victory for Brexit, another little step to the goal of ending FOM. High fives all round?

Just to be clear, ‘foreigners’ leaving has cock all to do with the desire to see an end to freedom of movement.

Freedom of movement means that immigration & emigration within the EU is devoid of any prioritisation or management wrt in-demand skills.
An end to freedom of movement means that this will change & immigration can be controlled & prioritised according to skills shortages and family ties.

Why are you so insistent that a vote for Brexit, or a desire to end FoM is the equivalent of wanting ‘foreigners’ to leave the U.K.?

To be fair to TheElementsSong there were two other posters that were implying all Leavers would be celebrating people leaving the UK. TheElementsSong only referenced Brexit itself as opposed to Brexiteers. I didn't get a vibe of snarkiness from her, unlike the others

Just seem the 'high fives all round' quote and am now questioning if my Snark-o-meter has malfunctioned. It's hard to keep up amongst all the sarcasm.

Cocory You may as well shout that into the ether. If you voted Leave you're pegged as a rotten shit regardless, by a select cohort.

Not even sure if the word cohort was applied correctly in that sentence. Ho hum, I knew what I meant 🤔

Let me just state that I want to end FOM but do not want to end immigration and am not anti foreigner. So I certainly do not cheer the situation we have where EU citizens or any other people are leaving the UK or feel unwelcome.

I know and respect your position Corcory having discussed with you for many months (although we're on opposite sides of the Brexit debate) but I (completely genuinely) don't understand what you're saying here .

If, as you wish, EU FOM were to end, how else would this desirable outcome manifest itself but in the form of people leaving? Isn't that, essentially, what EU FOM means? EU citizens having the right to live here in the UK, so when that ends they no longer have that right, doesn't it? As we very well know, a great many of those migrants living here will not qualify to convert their status to permanent residency, even if they would wish to take that step. So they would have to leave. And that's without considering the impact of the HO's infamous "hostile environment" and "oops, we've been caught mistakenly harassing legal residents" policy.

What was your (personal) vision for what the end of EU FOM would actually look like if it didn't involve a decrease in the number of EU migrants?

I would want the current EU citizens living here to continue on the same basis but that any future migrants would have to meet new rules.

Michael

Too damn right I was being sarcastic - the whole post.

There have been a goodly number of posts for the past year on multiple threads, insisting that Brexit is urgently needed to end FOM to limit numbers of immigrants because of school places, GP appointments, house prices, Polish nannies undercutting English ones... my inference from posts of that nature would be that reports of reduction in numbers of immigrants would be welcomed.

It's up to the observer to decide whether, therefore, my sarcasm was a ghastly generalised attack upon the noble intentions of all 17 million voters.

I would want the current EU citizens living here to continue on the same basis but that any future migrants would have to meet new rules.

I take it you are not thrilled with what we're actually getting from our fine government, then?

*postERS of that nature

It's up to the observer to decide whether, therefore, my sarcasm was a ghastly generalised attack upon the noble intentions of all 17 million voters

I'd say that reads as a smart-arsed justification for being rude to people who are trying to engage in online conversation. But it t'was ever thus on this board.

Not even a justification now I've thought about it, as that might imply you have two shits about being so god damn rude. It's obvious you don't and I will leave you to it lass

*gave

If, as you wish, EU FOM were to end, how else would this desirable outcome manifest itself but in the form of people leaving? Isn't that, essentially, what EU FOM means?

It is clear that you have completely misunderstood the concept of ending FoM.

Perhaps this explains your constantly equating people who want FoM to end to a bunch of big meanie, anti foreigner, baddies who want to evict people from the U.K. post haste.

Ok Michael.

So over the past year-and-a-bit, on this and other threads: the many posters who complained about unlimited numbers due to FOM blocking schools/GPS/houses/jobs; the poster who kept going on about "indigenous people"; the poster who said that EEuropeans having community centres was evidence of their lack of integration; the poster who said something like "Immigration has only brought bad things"; the many posters who responded "Don't let the door hit you/Good riddance/We only need loyal patriots here" to PP who said they were leaving because they felt unwelcome; the ongoing posters (including the repeatedly returning one who can't possibly exist because only Remainers have done that) who keep asking others "Why haven't you left yet?" just because they don't support Brexit; how about actual posters who have reported personal experience of being told to "f**k off home?" IRL... what do we suppose was the hidden message from the people who said that to them?

What you're telling me is that not a one of these people actually intends for even a single immigrant (or even non-immigrant who isn't a true patriot) to depart these shores? And not a one of these people wouldn't feel some measure of positivity at reports of departures?

Personally I do not believe that it is god damn rude to parody these attitudes. YMMV.

(NB. None of this is a justification because I'm still not sorry for it.)

Faith why direct your ire at Remainers on these boards for concluding that ending FOM means departure of immigrants, when apparently it's our own incredibly competent government who are actively pursuing an agenda of creating a hostile environment of harassing legal residents to leave?

Those 10000 nhs workers are such silllies. Fancy misunderstanding the highly nuanced leave vote.

As for the economy going tits up, this will have nothing to do with the leave vote either. Leave voters did not actually intend the economy to go tits up and therefore can't be held responsible.

So anyway, back to the op. It seems I'm right about almost nobody changing their minds about their vote. Even the poster who voted leave but now believes exiting the EU would be a disaster (or similar words) wouldn't switch his vote to remain.

So over the past year-and-a-bit, on this and other threads: the many posters who complained about unlimited numbers due to FOM blocking schools/GPS/houses/jobs; the poster who kept going on about "indigenous people"; the poster who said that EEuropeans having community centres was evidence of their lack of integration; the poster who said something like "Immigration has only brought bad things"; the many posters who responded "Don't let the door hit you/Good riddance/We only need loyal patriots here" to PP who said they were leaving because they felt unwelcome; the ongoing posters (including the repeatedly returning one who can't possibly exist because only Remainers have done that) who keep asking others "Why haven't you left yet?" just because they don't support Brexit; how about actual posters who have reported personal experience of being told to "fk off home?" IRL... what do we suppose was the hidden message from the people that said that to them?

I can't see any hidden message amongst your examples there. Some of those examples are downright nasty. I hope you reported the 'indigenous' comment. I'm allowed to think your posting style is rude; I just don't encounter such rage and anger in Real Life. Although where I live, I'd get my head kicked in if I went around speaking to people like crap just because I felt like it. Plus my mother brought me up to be tolerant of the views of others, as long as they weren't vile views, that is.

I've said before, I challenge racism/discriminatory views when I hear them. But I certainly don't think all remainers for example, want working class people or people with a low IQ who are considered to be 'retards' (by some remain voters), to be banned from voting.

Some posters on these threads remind me of Jim Carey in The Mask. Blowing sycophantic smoke up the arse of fellow remainers yet completely changing tack if a leave voter is posting, even if that poster hasn't expressed anything remotely unpleasant.

Histiny I'm not writing a book back and forth with you regarding the 10,000 figure you keep quoting. Your response yesterday to the full fact report was 'meh'. I do think though that even if a tiny amount of people have left the NHS due to a hostile environment, then it's a tiny amount too many. I think it's slightly more nuanced than that though; people are leaving the NHS in droves, including UK-born citizens. I know two staff nurses that have left in the last 6 months alone, both with over 20 year's worth of experience. It's a sad state of affairs.

So anyway, back to the op

Whoops, cross posted with you there