Has anybody changed their mind about how they voted?

[fakenamefornow]

It seems not many people have?

*in their 90s. Ffs. Sorry

Yep, same for my war baby relatives in their 70s/80s Quentin.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation is right - why engage with posters with such awful assumptions of what we think and insults of who you think we Leavers are?

This thread was about changing of minds about a referendum vote. I came here to discuss this topic, and answered the question. Bearbehind was instantly on me, insulting me from the first post. I politely responded, but the insults and insinuations have not stopped, and there are just so many Remainers here firing off this and that all over the place. Bearbehind, you have said I just get so frustrated with posters like flowerpots who go to great lengths to twist comments, but that is in your head. I haven't twisted a single thing, and you know it. Like your pre-loaded questions, like your assumptions about what we think, you seem to be incapable of reading what is in front of you and asking neutrally-framed questions. I have suggested you stop and then I will continue to answer you, you might find yourself being more effective, but you will not. I'm not sure what is going on with you and whether you do this in all spheres of your life, but you need to understand - it is impossible to engage with you in a manner that is productive, or even remotely enjoyable. This is a thread about mind-changing on a referendum vote. You have decided it is about something else entirely, with your "the only question that matters is.." Well, don't insult people who, funnily enough, have come on here to discuss the actual topic of the thread. Start your own.

If those of you being so aggressive and rude believe a Leave voters decision to not engage in such hostile, irrational nonsense is cowardice or inability to answer your questions, you are greatly mistaken. I am a very reasonable person and I simply do not engage with anyone who is disrespectful or insults me. I also did not come on this thread to debate aspects of points of European Law - I simply don't have time and you are firing off too many questions in all directions for anyone to be able to do so and live a life away from this screen, and I also found the topic of mind-changing in the referendum vote to be the interesting question, which is why I came on here in the first place.

If you believe all this has been some great display of intelligent debate from your side, you are greatly mistaken. This perpetual desire by Remainers, as shown here, to call/infer Leavers are fascists and racists through a "link" between some people and groups is insulting and ludicrous. Yes, some nazi supporters also support Leave. Some muslims also support Isis. Some revolutionary communists also support Remain. So goddam what? You want to discuss the growth of beliefs in a country, fine but why try so desperately to use such links as a reason to insult people here and their views?

What is happening here is precisely what I was referring to in one of my posts. We Leavers are insulted and bombarded with aggressively-framed questions and scoffed at. I'd hoped some of you were better than that. I came here to discuss the interesting question of changing of minds, from both sides. There should have been no offensiveness or insulting taking place. Sad to see that the awful behaviour continues. I won't be engaging further in this thread.

Flowerpot 👏👏*
*
They get like that whenever a Brexiter comes on these threads, like a bunch of middle aged sharks that smell blood.

They liked the Brexit Arms threads because it gave them an outlet to be twats to mean, nasty, racist Brexiteers but they're a bit lost now because Surfer and everyone else got bored of the repetitive, remoaning drivel.

Matoo

I am so very sorry.

I am so very sorry
Me too.

Ordinary Germans, claimed to know nothing of what was being done in their name under the third reich.

At least we can't say we didn't know. The 3 million have done a stunning job to publicise.

This book 'In Limbo' has testimony too.

europestreet.news/over-100-stories-of-eu-citizens-in-limbo-now-in-a-book/

I dont go on the brexit arms thread anymore

I have stopped engaging on there

Me too Rufus.
Smallfox reincarnated yet again did it for me.

I think it is very instructive though, that insofar as posts like allegretto's or Matoo's are acknowledged at all, their concerns and real-life difficulties are at best considered to merely be equal to the exquisite distress caused by people disagreeing with one's personal views on the Internet.

flowerpot my first post to you was not insulting at all. I simply asked what you meant when you said you knew what you voted for given no one even now knows what Brexit will look like.

You then took umbridge with the fact I was exasperated that, based on your reply, you seemed to think the vote was as simple as just leaving the EU, end of.

You also decided I was being insulting to say people who thought it was as simple as just walking away we're either naive or deluded. That wasn't meant as an insult; it's a fact.

It cannot be disputed that it is not as simple as just walking away, anyone who still thinks it is is either naive or deluded.

You then said you hadn't said it was that simple so I asked, if that was the case, what benefits do you perceive there to be which will outweigh the complications.

You then twisted that comment around and said something like 'try again' which is just goading anyway.

The fact is Remainers would like to hear things that are a little more than sound bites.

They'd like to understand what this 'gain' will be following the generally accepted 'pain' we are going to have to endure. A 'pain' that wasn't even mentioned before the referendum but now is referred to by many Leavers as something they knew would happen in the short term.

If you can't tell us that's fine but please do stop with the, I would tell you if you were more polite. Your posts were much more antagonistic than mine.

Elements - As I stated before there are two conversations going on at the moment. The plight of EU citizens is of course deep concern to everybody and no one in the leavers camp that I know would wish them ill, it doesn't however denigrate what flowerpot and others have said about how we feel about the way we are treated on here. This is not a game of top trumps.

Your idea of 'Facts' is very interesting Bear. Anyone would take offence with someone suggesting that they be deluded or naïve. That is not a 'fact' as you put it it is your opinion. And your opinion only. Too too often you state an opinion as a fact but with absolutely nothing to back it up. Flowerpot answered the OP's original question, the question that was asked on the ballet paper. If you wanted to ask for her reasons or thinking on this you could politely ask.

If you can't see that the way you refer to leavers and denigrate them is offensive then more fool you. Flowerpot quoted things you have said and it is obvious that the way you say things are provocative at the least.

I don't know how many times I have stated I am not a racist

How do you know you're not?

I don't mean that as a personal attack at all so please don't twist it into one. My family (as racist as they come, as were most of the community I grew up in) not only do they not want anymore immigrants to come here, they want those who are here already removed. If I called my mum racist, or even her views racist, she would take huge offence and insist she isn't and nothing she has ever said is racist. She really believes this. In her mind we all have our own country and everybody should stick to their own, that's fair, everybody has a place, nothing racist about that.

I grew up surrounded by these views and so do examine my own opinions. I think the idea that any of us are not bigoted is just wrong, we ALL have our prejudices. My point is though, I've never met a person with racist views who believed themselves to be racist, never.

Ordinary Germans, claimed to know nothing of what was being done in their name under the third reich.

They say this. I have just finished reading a novel written in 1934 where the existence of Concentration camps is discussed in some detail. As was the issue of people choosing not to see what was happening around them. They believed what they were told - that nice school friend who suddenly disappeared - why had her family gone without telling her? That good dentist - why did he give up?

At least the Brexit vote has opened my eyes as to what is happening more in this country. Some things I knew: I did know about food banks and thought it was a disgrace for a wealthy country to have them. I have seen the increase in homelessness. I did know that tax credits were mostly propping up people in work. I did know that the health service is in crisis because e.g. my GPs' surgery was threatened with closure. But there is a lot I didn't know. I didn't know about the Home Office booting people out, or trying to and backtracking saying it's a mistake when they are caught out. I didn't know the full extent of the housing crisis, I didn't know how insecure some people's lives have now become, nor the extent of zero hours contracts. I didn't know that schools were now collecting data on childrens' nationality, and that some schools are taking a voluntary question as gospel and asking to see passports from some children, and that mysteriously some of this information is finding its way to the immigration authorities.

And I could see the Camerons - David, Samantha, coining money as though they were entitled to it. I can see that Theresa May's cabinet is full of extremely weathly members, and given the lack of ability that they display I cannot believe they earned that money by their own efforts.

That is not a 'fact' as you put it it is your opinion.

corcory, could you tell me why it is not a 'fact' that leaving the EU is not as simple as just walking away?

I've never met a person with racist views who believed themselves to be racist, never.

Yes, "I'm not a racist but......" followed by some racist diatribe.

I can see that Theresa May's cabinet is full of extremely weathly members, and given the lack of ability that they display I cannot believe they earned that money by their own efforts.
Yes this with bells on.
Also that money a) cushions them from Brexit downsides b) means they have different motivations and goals than the average person.

These threads never change.
Full of elderly remainers with too much time on their hands talking bollocks.

Full of elderly remainers with too much time on their hands talking bollocks.

And Leavers think they are sweetness and politeness personified?

And Leavers think they are sweetness and politeness personified?

Stop oppressing them Bear, what are you, some kind of monster?

Must be elements

Full of elderly remainers with too much time on their hands talking bollocks.

Nice ageism there!
I think they don't change because you can't get a straight answer from leavers and asking damages their egos.

I think the blame goes straight to the "migrants " but what has the government done to reduce the need for foreign labour?

Have they encouraged British people to have more kids by decreasing the cost of childcare ?
Have they encouraged young brits to study in the areas where there is a shortage of applicants ?

Maybe they should have started with policies like this and the immigration would have slowed down.

I would actually like all the "EU migrants" to go on strike so that people who say we are parasites realise that they need us.

Oh and maybe "racist" is not the right word... How about "xenophobic" then?

I think YoungGirl unwittingly explains how no doubt many people use their vote: not to improve their lot, or the country but as an emotional response to a potential slight.

I've heard a lot of remainers assume that leavers voted based on feelings rather than principles or the best interests of the country.

I voted leave, and know maybe 50 people who did likewise, compared with two or three hundred who voted remain.

A number of the remainers I know voted out of self-interest, the vast majority of people I knew voted because of what they were convinced (rightly or wrongly) was best for the country long-term (albeit nearly all the remainers accepting that leaving would be harder in the short term).

Not one of those leavers whom I know voted based on perceived emotion slights, or "feelingz" as another poster slightly patronizingly put it.