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Brexit

Westministenders: I can't believe it's not butter

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 13/08/2017 09:43

Nigel Farage @ Nigel_Farage
Cannot believe we're seeing Nazi salutes in 21st century America.

Yeah, that's what we said on 16th June 2016, when some dickhead stood in front of a poster.

The thing is, what Farage says with faux surprise isn't unusual or isolated to him. It's widespread. It's perhaps the norm rather than the exception in many circles.

It's represents a total lack of self awareness. It represents the disconnect that what comes out of your mouth tends to have an effect on the people around you, whether intentioned that way or not when you talk about 'others' or 'not belonging'.

It's a direct effect of nationalism.

Patriotism seems to be something that people have totally lost the plot with and don't understand. It's used as a defence for nationalism. It is the last defence of the scoundrel. Patriotism and being pro-EU or not being a racist dick are not mutually exclusive, though you'd be forgiven for thinking differently these days.

I think a lot of people will sit and go, "Look at America, that is awful. I'm glad we are not like that".

Except we are far more than we realise. Grenfell says much about that.

There's an phrase and Southern Wolves and Northern Wolves when it comes to racism in America. The UK is like the Northern Wolf. Sly and silver tongued to justify and hide racism because 'Look they are worse than us. We are the good guys'.

A bit like saying, you talked to an EU citizen and they were just as racist as me, so Brexit is ok.

It's the twisted desperation to justify the othering rather than take responsibility for enabling and emboldening racism. Then dressing it up as some legitimate political cause which actually you have zero understanding or comprehension of the consequences of.

Brexit has some deep roots in Nazi type fantasies. You can not separate the idea that Britain is superior and Brits are better than Europeans from too much Brexit logic. The Empire was not a pretty thing for much of the world. It's worrying.

Not to mention we've had a right wing attack on a group of people outside a mosque in this fashion before the US had that attack yesterday.

Let's not think that because we haven't had blokes with tiki torches providing a photographic opportunity and theatre for the TV producer that we are somehow 'better'. Or not as bad as America.

The only real difference between them and us is the brash openness about it and the fact they have a bunch of guns.

This was predictable. Indeed I expected and I expect more. There will be more and it will get far, far worse in the US. Yesterday was just the start. Trump wants it. He will fuel it. He will capitalise from it. Yes your mate Donald loves a bit of bigotry, Nig.

There no guarantees it won't happen here for various reasons. It just is characterised in a slightly different way because we are British and don't really do brash in anything as it's not our way.

It's too easy for Farage. Or Johnson. Or May. Or whoever to just walk away and innocently say they are shocked and bear no responsibility because they don't wave Nazi flags about.

You don't have to do that, to share the same values or believe the same thing. Salutes and flags are just branding. A repackaged version for the 21st century is even more dangerous.

We won't forget who Farage hangs out with or courts for publicity and attention. Farage only says and does what he thinks he can get away with. That's part of the ugly truth.

We still have not even started to confront the relationship between racism and Brexit. Indeed, much seems to be happening to suggest that after blaming EU, that there are a Brexit opportunities for scapegoating opening up.

For me yesterday was depressing not because it happened, but because we saw it coming and because our country is in denial about being the same.

Farage is the very personification of it.

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RedToothBrush · 15/08/2017 09:34

Lib Dem Press Office‏*@LibDemPress*

Ah yes, "constructive ambiguity." Bit like that promise of £350m a week for the NHS..

Indeed

Jim Pickard‏*@PickardJE*

Dose of cold water this morning from European Commission: "'Frictionless trade' is not possible outside Single Market and Customs Union."

The Duck Committee go "FUCKERS. However our evil plan to make the EU look nasty is still on course".

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TheElementsSong · 15/08/2017 09:37

The Government has been accused of refusing to publish more than 50 “secret” studies in the impact of Brexit

The only correct patriotic response is to declare that you don't need to know any details about anything, you never meant it when you claimed for months that there were no possible downsides, that you always knew there would be hard times for a a few milliseconds, that any hardship is worth it for {abstract nouns}, and anyway that you just know it will all be absolutely marvellous in tum-ti-tum years' time. Also, if anything turns out not to be marvellous, then it is entirely the fault of somebody else.

Simples.

RedToothBrush · 15/08/2017 09:45

James Chapman‏**@jameschappers**

DD would never prep for @bbcradio4 as he knew Humphrys would do Brexit chums act then hector and interrupt @labour spokespeople #byebyejohn

James Chapman‏**@jameschappers**

DD was also relaxed about @afneil as they drink (lots) together regularly and his producer Robbie Gibb is a deranged Brexiteer now at No10

Did you see the treatment of Tim Farron by Andrew Neil in the Election Interview series...? It was most 'interesting' fucking obviously different from the others and full on aggressive from Neil

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RedToothBrush · 15/08/2017 09:48

David Davis‏ @DavidDavisMP
(3/3) The truth is existing trade deals with non-EU countries would stay in place until either side wanted to renegotiate

James Chapman‏*@jameschappers*
This is a lie. They all fall away as DD would know if he ever bothered to read his box #misconduct #thedemocrats #wemarchon

James Chapman, whatever his motives and how personal this is with Davis, is definitely making my morning....

Paul Elliott‏*@pelliott1954*
You will save a fortune on Xmas Cards this year James

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RedToothBrush · 15/08/2017 09:50

Chapman's motive is pretty obvious though tbh. Its to generate publicity and support for The Democrats.

I wonder how long he can keep it up, and if he can manage to get others on board and move it forward.

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LurkingHusband · 15/08/2017 09:55

50 secret studies ????? Have the current cabinet starting aping the Nazi fascination with numerology and woo ???

LurkingHusband · 15/08/2017 09:56

Oh, has anyone else seen these pictures of Jacob Rees Mogg from the 1900s ?

I think there's a portrait of him in the attic ...

Westministenders: I can't believe it's not butter
Westministenders: I can't believe it's not butter
RandomlyGenerated · 15/08/2017 10:08

I like this one:

"Well, Rees-Mogg minor, I think we will have find a new tattoo emporium to frequent".

Westministenders: I can't believe it's not butter
RedToothBrush · 15/08/2017 10:33

Lurking, I'm waiting for the Jacob Rees-Moog portrait given photography is a modern invention.

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LurkingHusband · 15/08/2017 10:51

Lurking, I'm waiting for the Jacob Rees-Moog portrait given photography is a modern invention.

FSVO "modern" - there are photographs from the 1850s !

Mind you, given that email (SMTP protocol was established in 1982) is 35 years old, the uptake by UK businesses is woeful. They prefer that well known 19th century invention: the telephone. JRM probably feels quite at home in the UK ...

RedToothBrush · 15/08/2017 11:06

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/downing-street-says-donald-trumps-10986230
Downing Street says Donald Trump's statements are 'a matter for him' after he fails to directly condemn white supremacists
Downing Street said the Prime Minister was clear in condemning the far right - but would not comment directly on the US President's remarks

FFS

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PattyPenguin · 15/08/2017 11:07

Yes but LH, Rees-Mogg is well known as the Member of Parliament for the 18th century.

TheNumberfaker · 15/08/2017 11:35

I'm just wondering how much Chapman can reveal before someone starts to shout 'Official Secrets...'

Oh and can't believe we have a second JC as a potential Brexit saviour!

bathildabagshot1 · 15/08/2017 11:50

So DD now says that we may have to pay for our temporary customs union.

Oh and it means that all the anti immigration lobby will be disapointed because people will still be coming from the EU, just maybe in slightly smaller numbers.

Brexit is a fudge. BEANO to keep the thick happy.

squoosh · 15/08/2017 11:52

In all seriousness though, I wonder how much real dirt Chappers has on Davis and Co. I have a funny feeling that if he does have some, he may not go quietly.

Good. I'm enjoying his Twitter venting very much.

Tanith · 15/08/2017 12:14

"The moggle will be the end of the Tories for a generation. I hope they elect him. Its not impossible: this is the party that elected that talentless vote-loser IDS."

JRM is a living reincarnation of Michael Howard - they even look alike!

LurkingHusband · 15/08/2017 12:28

JRM is a living reincarnation of Michael Howard

Or a young Franklin D. Roosevelt (hence my post earlier).

So much so that I would wager there is some shared blood (although it certainly won't be "common") ....

PattyPenguin · 15/08/2017 13:08

The policy paper on Customs Cake is here www.gov.uk/government/publications/future-customs-arrangements-a-future-partnership-paper

woman12345 · 15/08/2017 13:11

@IsabelOakeshott
Colleagues been asked to go easy on @jameschappers as he's 'not well.' I know he will turn on me, but it's time someone stood up to this.

@jameschappers
James Chapman Retweeted Isabel Oakeshott
I would be very very careful. Who pays for those bad hair extensions? #somethingaboutisabel #porkiesJames Chapman added,

Yikes ^

and this

James Chapman Retweeted
Rochelle Harris‏ @UKDemocracy
Replying to @jameschappers @afneil
Banks deleted this tweet to Robbie Gibbs & Times within 15 mins. Refers to Farage meeting w/ Wikileaks which was poss. espionage. #Brexit

Westministenders: I can't believe it's not butter
kijazaxofe · 15/08/2017 13:20

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woman12345 · 15/08/2017 13:25

That's a bit odd? Banks' weird tweet and then that?^

Anyway, I suspect you're right poster up thread he's got some proper secrets:

@jameschappers
I was with DD when he leered over @hackneyabbott. He was drunk, bullying and inappropriate #thedemocrats #wemarchon

@Rowland72James 5h
Replying to @jameschappers @HackneyAbbott
DD seems to be pissed a lot of the time. Perhaps he senses whats coming and is worried

prettybird · 15/08/2017 13:30

Even Wink the BBC News is acknowledging that this "temporary Customs Union" fantasy paper has been produced with an internal audience in mind rather than any expectation of it actually being possible Confused

So it's yet another gambit to build the case for blaming the EU for being "unreasonable" when the unicorns and everlasting cake fail to materialise cliff-edge Brexit happens HmmSad

RedToothBrush · 15/08/2017 13:37

www.gov.uk/government/news/new-customs-proposals-laid-out-by-government-in-new-paper-on-future-relationship-with-the-eu
New customs proposals laid out by Government in new paper on future relationship with the EU

OFFICIAL UK position on the Customs Union

And Ian Dunt's analysis:

Ian Dunt‏**@IanDunt**

Full analysis of the customs union position paper: A fantasy land of desperation and muddled thinking

www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/08/15/the-government-s-customs-union-plan-is-an-absolute-dog-s-bre
The government's customs union plan is an absolute dog's breakfast

Ian Dunt‏**@IanDunt**
Christ alive. What I'd give to have the last three hours of my life back.
Anyway, that piece is quite long, but I've done a fairly thorough job of fisking that thing for all it's worth.
Amazing thing is the pointlessness of it all. Masses of extra red tape, loads of new costs, untold lost hours in negotiation & preparation, and all for what? So we can replicate what we have now, except worse. What an unspeakable waste of time.
On days like today I have that same feeling as on the day of the vote:
A massive political cul-de-sac, taking up years of everyone's attention and skill, for no discernible purpose.

Robert Reed‏*@robertreed10*
As you say is 100% to keep Liam Fox in his job. Who has a whole ministry that can't do any work, ummm why not spend the money on the NHS?

Its less about Liam Fox, and more about Theresa's judgment in creating the department in the first place.

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woman12345 · 15/08/2017 13:45

Dunt and Chapman do seem to reach parts that others can't quite reach.
Energia is pulsing out of the chapman thread, what we need. Smile

Dunt's right; hhow many hospital budgets, PIPs payments and school budgets is this waste of time and money going to cost. Already must be hammering HMRC with successful businesses and workers on planes out of here.

squoosh · 15/08/2017 13:49

I love how fraught and bitchy they're all getting. Nice to see them being needled.

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