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Brexit

Westministenders: I can't believe it's not butter

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 13/08/2017 09:43

Nigel Farage @ Nigel_Farage
Cannot believe we're seeing Nazi salutes in 21st century America.

Yeah, that's what we said on 16th June 2016, when some dickhead stood in front of a poster.

The thing is, what Farage says with faux surprise isn't unusual or isolated to him. It's widespread. It's perhaps the norm rather than the exception in many circles.

It's represents a total lack of self awareness. It represents the disconnect that what comes out of your mouth tends to have an effect on the people around you, whether intentioned that way or not when you talk about 'others' or 'not belonging'.

It's a direct effect of nationalism.

Patriotism seems to be something that people have totally lost the plot with and don't understand. It's used as a defence for nationalism. It is the last defence of the scoundrel. Patriotism and being pro-EU or not being a racist dick are not mutually exclusive, though you'd be forgiven for thinking differently these days.

I think a lot of people will sit and go, "Look at America, that is awful. I'm glad we are not like that".

Except we are far more than we realise. Grenfell says much about that.

There's an phrase and Southern Wolves and Northern Wolves when it comes to racism in America. The UK is like the Northern Wolf. Sly and silver tongued to justify and hide racism because 'Look they are worse than us. We are the good guys'.

A bit like saying, you talked to an EU citizen and they were just as racist as me, so Brexit is ok.

It's the twisted desperation to justify the othering rather than take responsibility for enabling and emboldening racism. Then dressing it up as some legitimate political cause which actually you have zero understanding or comprehension of the consequences of.

Brexit has some deep roots in Nazi type fantasies. You can not separate the idea that Britain is superior and Brits are better than Europeans from too much Brexit logic. The Empire was not a pretty thing for much of the world. It's worrying.

Not to mention we've had a right wing attack on a group of people outside a mosque in this fashion before the US had that attack yesterday.

Let's not think that because we haven't had blokes with tiki torches providing a photographic opportunity and theatre for the TV producer that we are somehow 'better'. Or not as bad as America.

The only real difference between them and us is the brash openness about it and the fact they have a bunch of guns.

This was predictable. Indeed I expected and I expect more. There will be more and it will get far, far worse in the US. Yesterday was just the start. Trump wants it. He will fuel it. He will capitalise from it. Yes your mate Donald loves a bit of bigotry, Nig.

There no guarantees it won't happen here for various reasons. It just is characterised in a slightly different way because we are British and don't really do brash in anything as it's not our way.

It's too easy for Farage. Or Johnson. Or May. Or whoever to just walk away and innocently say they are shocked and bear no responsibility because they don't wave Nazi flags about.

You don't have to do that, to share the same values or believe the same thing. Salutes and flags are just branding. A repackaged version for the 21st century is even more dangerous.

We won't forget who Farage hangs out with or courts for publicity and attention. Farage only says and does what he thinks he can get away with. That's part of the ugly truth.

We still have not even started to confront the relationship between racism and Brexit. Indeed, much seems to be happening to suggest that after blaming EU, that there are a Brexit opportunities for scapegoating opening up.

For me yesterday was depressing not because it happened, but because we saw it coming and because our country is in denial about being the same.

Farage is the very personification of it.

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Thread gallery
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BiglyBadgers · 15/08/2017 07:58

It's not a Customs Union, oh no. It's a temporary customs union. Completely different.

Clearly it is my lack of Eton education that leaves me unable to process this level of crazy. Confused Hmm

prettybird · 15/08/2017 08:03

Listening to David Davis describing their proposed unicorn temporary customs union where containers are waived through in seconds ignoring the inconvenient point that any such procedures will be with countries with whom we have trade agreements

He's claiming that the last 12 months have been spent talking with businesses, countries and interested parties to put together this proposal Hmm Shame no one seems to have remembered talking to them didn't companies who pointed our problems have "access" to the government withdrawn? And hasn't the Freight Forwarding Association just been pointing out the problems and lack of necessary preparation Hmm

He's still living in cloud cuckoo land.

Knope2020 · 15/08/2017 08:11

.

EmilyAlice · 15/08/2017 08:14

Is it too much to hope that there might be some serious television programmes about all this? It seems that every channel is full of trivia and repeats of trivia. Obviously it won't happen during the summer schedules, but maybe in the autumn? Maybe encourage viewers to engage their brains a bit?

RedToothBrush · 15/08/2017 08:26

BEANO!

(Brexit exists in name only)

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whatwouldrondo · 15/08/2017 08:32

Elements Would be hilarious if it wasn't real life. This kind of vague, hand-wavey, string-of-adjectives, undergraduate-level sloganeering essay is aimed at a domestic audience. It's Cake-And-Eat-It, but with longer words. I think that is unfair criticism of undergraduates, in fact I don't think it would reach the level of the mark scheme for a C or whatever that translates into in Govegrades at GCSE. They all require some substance.

TheElementsSong · 15/08/2017 08:35

ron

Grin Grin Grin

LurkingHusband · 15/08/2017 08:53

Time to invest in a decent VPN guys

If you haven't been running one for the past few years, you've not understood the evidence ....

LurkingHusband · 15/08/2017 08:56

Is it too much to hope that there might be some serious television programmes about all this? It seems that every channel is full of trivia and repeats of trivia

Which is what Prime, (unGeoBlocked) Netflix, and boxsets were invented for.

It's almost like there is a God ...

BigChocFrenzy · 15/08/2017 08:58

Customs Union, Tariffs, FTAs

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/06/turkey-is-no-model-for-britains-post-brexit-trade-policy/

A customs union is a trade bloc within which members remove tariff barriers on each other’s goods.
< in practice, non-tariff barriers may remain >
They also adopt a common external tariff and trade policy for countries outside the union.

Conversely, within a free-trade agreement, countries remove tariffs on each other’s goods but they do not have a common policy for third countries.

So within a free-trade agreement you need customs barriers and “rules of origin” to check whether a product really comes from your preferred trade partner or whether it is from another country, in which case it is not entitled to tariff-free access under the agreement.

Turkey is in the Customs Union and has around 20 free-trade agreements,
BUT they are ultimately a one-way street that can put Turkish firms at a competitive disadvantage.

Turkey has to open its markets to any country the EU strikes an agreement with.

BUT it doesn’t get any say over how that agreement is formed
and doesn’t even get the same immediate duty-free access to that country’s market that EU members do.

< also lorries from Turkey wait 12-36 hours at the EU borders, worst case several days >

histinyhandsarefrozen · 15/08/2017 09:00

David Davis is so horrible in interview. He is so sneery even as he proposes his ridiculous schemes.

Lots of memories of partition of India in the news. Lots of talk about the rushed nature, Ill-preparedness and the way the British left without suitable mechanisms in place...

BigChocFrenzy · 15/08/2017 09:01

DD's Brexshit waffle will probably fool most of the public for some time yet.
It won't fool Barnier for 2 seconds
Hence, no dice

RedToothBrush · 15/08/2017 09:01

Can you imagine the Cabinet Meeting?:

Hammond: "So let me get this straight. We will no longer have ducks after Brexit?"
Fox: "NO! We voted to get rid of ducks from the UK! We can not have ducks in this country or I will cease to have a job which Theresa creates for me especially so I can swan off around the world on a full time jolly."
Davis: "Correct. We can no longer tolerate ducks in the UK after Brexit. We can of course have Rouens, Silver Bantams, Aylesburys, Abacot Rangers and of course Black East Indians running around ponds across the country. What else would toddlers do when they visit a park if they had no ducks to chase and feed?"
Hammond: "Ok! In that case I'm on board! Sounds perfect! Why was I ever a Remainer?".

The Cabinet unanimously decide to pursue the Waddling Creature Approach to Brexit and hold a press conference to announce their achievement in coming to this momentous decision.

Journalist: "Mr Davis, Mr Davis, can you enlighten us as to the Cabinet position on the Blue Swedish after Brexit?"
Davis: "Of course! We do not want any of these EU creatures here after Brexit. This was the point of Brexit. We want red, white and blue birds only. They will be allowed to stay, but we certainly can not have any more. Parliament will vote to create a new type of bird classification called a Blue British"
Journalist: "Do you think this is a wise use of public funds, resources and parliamentary time?"
Davis: "Stop being so unpatriotic! Brexit means we can reclaim our borders and the right to ban ducks from this country. This is what they public voted for on 23rd June 2016".

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RedToothBrush · 15/08/2017 09:05

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/news/88253/former-chief-staff-sticks-boot-part-time
Former chief of staff sticks boot into 'part-time, leering bully' David Davis

David Davis’s former chief of staff has launched a scathing attack on the Brexit Secretary, accusing him of only working a three-day week and "leering" over Labour frontbencher Diane Abbott.

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RedToothBrush · 15/08/2017 09:07

Asa Bennett‏ @asabenn
Davis denies @jameschappers's claim that he has Farage on speed dial. "Not on speed-dial, but I've got his number" #lbc

James Chapman‏**@jameschappers** 1 minute ago
And he ordered appalled civil servants to programme it into his official phone. They refused #thedemocrats #wemarchon

Looks like someone is going native on twitter! Grin

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Peregrina · 15/08/2017 09:08

Lots of talk about the rushed nature, Ill-preparedness and the way the British left without suitable mechanisms in place...

I said that last week! I am glad the media have caught up with me.
I reminds me of a TV programme I saw a few years ago. One man interviewed was ex-Army and was serving in India at the time. The day after partition a riot broke out in his town. None, except him, realised that he no longer had any authority whatever to take action. He went into the town and fired his gun into the air and thankfully for all concerned, the crowd dispersed, so his bluff wasn't called.

Will the Tory party's bluff be called over Brexit, I wonder?

BigChocFrenzy · 15/08/2017 09:13

If DD's DexEu wants a motto for their building:

"Brexit: Welcome to Planet Stupid"

BigChocFrenzy · 15/08/2017 09:15

According to headhunters Morgan McKinley
there was an 11% slide in the number of City jobs in July, compared with a year ago
and a 33% fall in professionals seeking positions
Hakan Enver, Morgan McKinley’s operations director for financial services, said:
“The City is still haemorrhaging talent because of Brexit, and we risk losing jobs, too."

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/15/city-brexit-says-headhunter-financial-services-uk-eu

RedToothBrush · 15/08/2017 09:20

Rob Redmond‏*@robby*_red
Who does the thinking for the PM now nick and Fiona are gone?

James Chapman‏*****@jameschappers***
No one. Not much going on upstairs with latter day Elizabeth I, I'm sad to report #thedemocrats #wemarchon

Other gems on his twitter feed this morning include:

Wok Chi Steve‏*@Wok*ChiSteve
@jameschappers .. is DD on drugs? Or is he totally insane?

James Chapman‏*****@jameschappers***

Well. He isn't on drugs as far as I know #thedemocrats #WeMarchOn

Reuters UK @ReutersUK
Brexit campaigners launch bid to oust pro-EU Hammond

James Chapman‏*****@jameschappers***
He will have a home in #thedemocrats. How about today @PhilipHammondMP? Do the decent thing and resign and let's crush the #mogglodytes

James Chapman‏*****@jameschappers***

It is totally inappropriate for Humphrys to conduct Brexit interviews. Mail has to be prised out of his hands and he holidays with DD

So Davis wants 'Constructive ambiguity' for Brexit according to this morning's R4.

Can anyone answer me:

a) How is this good for business if you are vague and no one really knows wtf you are talking about or want?
b) Why didn't he just say 'Smoke and Mirrors and an Emergency PR job for the Conservative Party to polish a turd and hide what they are really doing' for Brexit?
c) What they fuck is happening to my country that we are being led by people who spout this crap about ducks no longer being ducks because of patriotism?

In all seriousness though, I wonder how much real dirt Chappers has on Davis and Co. I have a funny feeling that if he does have some, he may not go quietly.

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PattyPenguin · 15/08/2017 09:20

There's still no sign of the actual position paper on the DExEU site. The "Latest from" page was last updated on 13 July (with 3 other position papers).

Oh well, I suppose Tuesday isn't over yet.

RedToothBrush · 15/08/2017 09:22

I said that last week! I am glad the media have caught up with me.

In fairness Peregina, I think you said that in July / August LAST YEAR...

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RedToothBrush · 15/08/2017 09:23

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/tory-mp-will-quit-party-if-jacob-rees-mogg-is-made-leader_uk_5990cd7fe4b08a24727553bf?
Conservative MP Heidi Allen Says She Will Quit Party If Jacob Rees-Mogg Is Made Leader
‘He is not the modern face of the Tory party.’

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RedToothBrush · 15/08/2017 09:28

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-50-studies-impact-economy-nurses-eu-a7893216.html
Government refusing to publish 50 'secret' studies on Brexit impact
Ministers say the studies'findings could jeopardise their EU negotiation positions

The Government has been accused of refusing to publish more than 50 “secret” studies in the impact of Brexit – for fear they could cause embarrassment to ministers.

Brexit minister David Jones confirmed in a letter that the Department for Exiting the European Union had “conducted analysis of over 50 sector of the economy”.

But ministers are so far resisting calls to publish the findings of the investigations in full – arguing that some findings “would undermine the Government’s ability to negotiate the best deal for Britain” were they made public.

It comes after one leaked piece of research by the Department of Health found that Brexit could cause a shortage of more than 40,000 nurses by 2026.

Is that undermine the government's negotiation position at the EU talks or in the HoC? Just trying to clarify this bullshit.

What are the chances of Whitehall being as leaky as the Trump White House in the next week or two?

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histinyhandsarefrozen · 15/08/2017 09:28

Sorry peregrina Grin I'm always late to the party.

RedToothBrush · 15/08/2017 09:32

James Chapman‏*@jameschappers*
@PhilipHammondUK @GregClarkMP @JustineGreening @sajidjavid @Jeremy_Hunt are people of honour. Get out of this #conkip Cabinet now

Jesus fucking Christ on a Bike. Jeremy Cunt is a man of honour?! These are indeed crazy times (though thinking about it, that leak about the nurses...)

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