A Brexiters chat with a German on a Portuguese beach.

[themueslicamel]

Just got back from Portugal and when there was on s beach where I left my shoes on s rock, s nice German chap brought them over and asked me where I was from (London) and how I voted in the referendum.

I was honest and told him I backed leave and we had an interesting conversation.

I told him my reasons for doings so, pro Europe, anti EU and confirmed I was for immigration, just having controls over who we let in and in what number.

I said we should and will take our share of refugees however I did not like the way the EU was going with the EU army on the horizon and feels we should look to trading freely with the rest of the world too.

He said many Germans feel let down as they need us as an economic powerhouse to pay in and we should close the borders with Africa and send all of the migrants back.

Some of his views seemed to be along the lines of what is often thrown against brexiters, and I appreciate it was a lone view but closing borders and sending people back seemed at least to him to be the way forward.

Not sure where I am going with this, just thought it may be of interest on this forum and provide an alternate (albeit limited) prospective.

Xenophobic behaviour is unacceptable, we need immigration, just the right sort.

My above comment outlined people voted for many reasons, I, and many others who voted leave do not support racist knuckle draggers.

I believe in the UK, we didn't vote to join the EU and I don't like where its heading.

The road ahead will be tempestuous, of that I have no doubt and I understand why people voted remain, I really do but I hope long term we can be a bastion of education, democracy and tolerance trading globally outside of the EU.

I have travelled quite a bit since just before the referendum. Just before I was in Australia where I spent a week camping in the outback with a group of travellers from Australia, Germany, USA, Nepal, China, Switzerland Spain, Holland and France. They all wanted to know why the UK was even contemplating leaving the EU? It was a source of shock and puzzlement. They all agreed they had narrow minded racist people in their countries who failed to appreciate that the refugee crisis was a direct result of the actions of the west in the countries they were fleeing. However there was also a feeling that the UK had a particular sense of entitlement as a result of Empire, particularly amongst the Australians. It was self evident to them that in the global economy you trade with your neighbours, and in Australia's case that means Asia, and increasing immigration from Asia (far greater by the way than the immigration we have seen from the EU, the Australian controls held up by Leavers are actually there to facilitate immigration not stop it). I have travelled in Asia since and encountered the same views. That sense of entitlement is blinding British politicians and voters to the fact that if they think we are going to compensate for lost trade with the EU in the rest of the world we are going to find it, not just a competitive place, but also one where there is a lot of antipathy to the UK.

They were all under 30 though. But then the tour guides in Asia who spend their time showing our wealthy and mainly Brexiteers baby boomers around were equally puzzled by what these things called "sovereignty" and "taking back control" were that they were so powerful that we were turning our back on our best trading partners?

These are of course just anecdotes but consistent with the response Boris Johnson and Liam Fox have met with in the rest of the world. I can't say that Angela Merkel has manifested any of the attitudes of your lone German on the beach......

I really do but I hope long term we can be a bastion of education, democracy and tolerance trading globally outside of the EU.

How do you think we will achieve that? (Serious question)

Law abiding people who will interstate and benefit the economy.

Please note I am talking about immigration, not refugees.

We need to do our bit there undoubtedly, as we have historically.

Integrate, not interstate , doh!

Two fingers
If I had that answer I would be in politics rather than finance.

Mother of four

Could you tell me where I have said I that at any point ?!?!

I am for immigration.

Please don't put words in my mouth.

I think any slight appetite any other EU countries had to leave the EU prior to the referendum will have been blasted away by the disaster that is 'Brexit' since 24th June 16. It's been an absolute embarrassment so far.

Mother, no probs

We need to attract talent globally, from EU or outside.

Right attitude and want to join us then welcome.

Don't care about sex, religion, or birth country.

If you want to work and integrate then come on in.

The Romans did this and did rather well for a time!

Shoes

Agreed, the fuckwits have made a dogs arse of it so far.

Could almost be intentional sabotage.

We need to attract talent globally, from EU or outside.

We have been doing that successfully for many years. Why will this be different post-Brexit?

Right attitude and want to join us then welcome.

What is the 'right attitude'? As far as I know, the colleagues I have worked with for years have had the right attitude, tutoring undergraduates, supervising docotoral students, but maybe they didn't. Can you explain?

Agreed, the fuckwits have made a dogs arse of it so far.

But what were you expecting in the absence of any strategy or plan?

Which visionary did you think had the capability to steer us through a successful Brexit? Farage? Gove? Johnson? Patel? (all very quiet since their 'success'). Or maybe you mean Davis?

Oh so Theresa has deliberately chosen all the main Brexiteers to run the show so that it proves that it can't be done... ? She's a good'un, sacrificing her own career for the country.

I suspect the right sort of immigration for that German man is no black people or people of any colour...
Ring of steel...

But what you want isn't what we are set to get. You didn't vote for what you wanted specifically. You weren't given that option.

It's worth noting that in Germany referenda are illegal, as they believe that putting complex questions to a simple yes or no vote is the route to fascism. It's also worth noting that Germany and France were at war with each other on and off for fucking decades. They haven't been over the last 70 years, though, have they?

To be honest your new pal sounds pretty unpleasant.

Yes, on June 24th Brexit Campaigners be like this

We need to attract talent globally, from EU or outside.

Right attitude and want to join us then welcome.*

This works both ways you know? At the moment the global talent are seeing the attitude towards immigrants in the U.K. and saying No thanks.

The attitude manifested by the Brexit vote and ensuing unleashing of racist rhetoric and behaviour not just amongst a minority of people but in mainstream media like the Daily Fail. It is also manifested in the deterrent immIgration processes with 70 page forms and the requirement for extensive evidence of years of your life designed to trip you up unless you have access to both expert advice and, if not part of an immigrant community with the resources the money to pay for it. It is also manifested in the harassment of immigrants by immigration authorities including detaining and deporting illegally students at some of our best universities. It is also manifested by the human rights abuses and abuse of women in particular in detention centres like Yarlswood.

13% of EU Scientists have left since the Brexit vote and many have taken their research with them, along with many other academics. That includes my Dutch Professor a world leading expert in his field who had been here 20 years in spite of working in an underfunded university sector, the Brexit vote was the last straw. Business, including the service sector which accounts for 70% of our economy has been complaining since the days of the coalition that our immigration process and the emphasis on control was preventing them from recruiting the best talent.

I don't have all of the answers, no one does.

The wrong attitude is people who want to set up ghettos and not integrate, criminals, people with a history of being criminally sexually abusive, those with no intention of working who intend to use our safety net and play the system, those who preach hate and intolerance against gays and have archaic views on sexual equality.

As I said above, if you want to succeed, work ad bring something to the party, come on in.

For those who seek to steal and exploit, not today thanks......

I, by the way, was an immigrant to China, one of the most xenophobic societies on the planet. I, and my employer, filled out a one page form with no intrusive questions, and it was rubber stamped with leave to remain. They are the competitors for global talent... .

Surely a ghetto is forced upon people rather than chosen by them? It is entirely natural for people to want to be close to family and friends.