A Brexiters chat with a German on a Portuguese beach.

[themueslicamel]

Just got back from Portugal and when there was on s beach where I left my shoes on s rock, s nice German chap brought them over and asked me where I was from (London) and how I voted in the referendum.

I was honest and told him I backed leave and we had an interesting conversation.

I told him my reasons for doings so, pro Europe, anti EU and confirmed I was for immigration, just having controls over who we let in and in what number.

I said we should and will take our share of refugees however I did not like the way the EU was going with the EU army on the horizon and feels we should look to trading freely with the rest of the world too.

He said many Germans feel let down as they need us as an economic powerhouse to pay in and we should close the borders with Africa and send all of the migrants back.

Some of his views seemed to be along the lines of what is often thrown against brexiters, and I appreciate it was a lone view but closing borders and sending people back seemed at least to him to be the way forward.

Not sure where I am going with this, just thought it may be of interest on this forum and provide an alternate (albeit limited) prospective.

Wow you spoke some to a German bloke! Amazing. How brave and adventurous of you.

There are nine million bicycles in Beijing... and 82.67 million people in Germany. Clearly people have a range of political opinions.

Let's see how the German people vote in September. I am fairly sure that Germans will vote Angela Merkel in September suggesting that her stance on supporting refugees from war torn Syria has washed down relatively well with the German population all things being considered.

Of course, there are some far right arses ignorant bigots in Germany as there are in the UK, France the US and everywhere else. It's also true that there is a relatively higher percentage of xenophobes and racists in eastern German (formerly GDR) due to arrange of socio-economic reasons. But then there are many who are not, I really don't understand what you think you might have learned from your conversation with a German tourist holidaying on a beach in Portugal whilst taking full advantage of being EU citizens.

OP now, the real question is: who got their beach towel on the sun loungers first, you or him?

The wrong attitude is people who want to set up ghettos and not integrate, criminals, people with a history of being criminally sexually abusive, those with no intention of working who intend to use our safety net and play the system, those who preach hate and intolerance against gays and have archaic views on sexual equality.

How many immigrants display these attitudes? All the statistics I have seen show that the vast majority do come here to work and contribute to society. I live in a city that has high levels of immigration and I don't see much evidence of these attitudes amongst immigrants. In fact I see immigration only as a positive, and cultural diversity as enriching my life. For instance the high numbers of immigrants in my DDs schools contributed very positively to embedding a work ethic in the the Schools ethos and culture On the other hand the vast majority of people who have these "attitudes" are British citizens and for that we have as a society a framework of law and policy which addresses the issue of attitudes which are regarded as detrimental to socited. Immigration is a just a red herring in addressing the substance of such problems, where they actually exist as opposed to being exaggerated by the misinformation in papers like the Daily Mail.

So Muesli, can you point me to where the ghettoes of EU migrants are? Do you mean all the French bankers around South Ken? The Italians and Spanish working in Pret? The Polish that my friends have married?

Or do you mean non-integration by some groups of non-EU migrants where Britain has already full control?

FWIW, my German Cambridge PhD husband thought Britain should leave as Britain never believed in the EU or what it was for. He thought Europe would be better off without the whinging for a special case. However, even he is taken aback by how personally rejected he feels by the vote. I am sure you would class him as the 'right kind of immigrant' and say 'oh, but I didn't mean you'......

My doctor has banned me from going near the daily mail as it does terrible things to my blood pressure.

Safe to say not a fan of it myself!

I hate the behaviour of brits abroad though, that myth that it's the Germans putting towels on the loungers is just that, it us.

When abroad I immerse myself and I run a mile from fellow brits abroad, if I wanted to be around brits, I would stay at home.

Just to add to what Ron said above, there is lots of research showing that immigrants are less likely to be involved in crime when compared to "locals" with similar characteristics.

I will say it again, I am pro immigration.

However being on a small island where people want to squash themselves into the south east with it's struggling infrastructure, resources and space then maybe, just maybe it's a good idea to have a handle on the amount of people coming in, and some mechanism to weed out those who seek to exploit us.

Or does that make me xenophobic monstrous small minded little Englander despite what I have said previously?

just maybe it's a good idea to have a handle on the amount of people coming in, and some mechanism to weed out those who seek to exploit us.
It has always been legal to 'have a handle' on who's coming in and to 'weed out' those who seek to exploit us (I suppose you mean our benefits system, otherwise I'm not sure how we are being 'exploited'.) Unfortunately, successive UK governments have chosen not to do so.
Or does that make me xenophobic monstrous small minded little Englander despite what I have said previously?
It is very tiresome when Leavers trot this out.

It is too complicated an issue to discuss on beaches. It should have been discussed in our world leading universities (who voted Remain unanimously:Cambridge, Warwick, London....) and and in Parliament. Not to be decided by public who has no idea of the complications, no qualifications to discuss the ins and out (if googling could count, we would all have PHD degrees in various disciplines, many people will have multiple PhD and postdocs too). parliament is where it should have taken place. Not in streets and pubs.

I haven't rtft. This jumped out at me after I had been reading the thread about the impact of advantages. It was the usual MN theme of "those toffs don't know how we real people live. Their view of life is skewed by their advantage. It's not right that they are in charge". Yet someone here thinks that we shouldn't allow the plebs to have an opinion, we should leave it to the Clever People who, incidentally, benefit from this system.
If enough people felt the EU benefited them then they would have voted to Remain.
You need to check you privilege!

Saying that people have "no idea of the complications" is daft. It is a well-known phrase in financial circles that 'if you don't understand the product then don't buy it". I bet all the bankers (with their banking qualifications) 10 years ago thought they were clever with their 'complicated' products and look what a mess they made of the global economy. Who's still picking up the pieces from the banking crisis: is it the bankers or the plebs?
Part of the reason I voted out was precisely because they have made the EU so complicated and opaque.

Two fingers

Pardon me for having an opinion you find "tiresome"

That's not what people were discussig here though. They were discussing whether anti EU sentiment existed in other EU countries. And of course it does. Not really a surprise.

Just got the record, I live and work in a multicultural office in the city and have a senior position in a financial firm with matching qualifications to go with my thick racist uneducated tiresome opinion.

"However being on a small island where people want to squash themselves into the south east with it's struggling infrastructure, resources and space then maybe, just maybe it's a good idea to have a handle on the amount of people coming in, and some mechanism to weed out those who seek to exploit us."

Or demand our government invest in the necessary infrastructure so that living in the SE is not the 'only' place people seek to make a living. And, impose the laws the EU offers to send back EU citizens who are NOT exercising their treaty rights e.g. are unemployed during their first few years here.

Brexiting is, unfortunately, throwing the poor baby out with the bath water.

Oh well. It'll hit the 'plebs' (Purit's expression) the worst, not us so much.

Mother

Can be from anywhere, including Europe.

Just out of interest, where do people think the EU will end up?

United Member States of Europe, single currency, single army, single country?

Is this wanted by remainers?

Discuss

to go with my thick racist uneducated tiresome opinion.

Here we go again. Why do Leave voters insist on calling themselves thick/ racist/uneducated? They're really not doing themselves any favours.

Discuss

Um no

Two fingers

It's hardly paranoia is it?

This is thrown at us constantly, we don't "understand"

For goodness sake, look at the media over the last year.....

Muesli. You still haven't explained where the EU ghettoes are in the U.K. So far, all I hear from you is, I'm not racist and xenophobic but.....

Just another
Think you're missing the point of a chat thread then!

Why do Leave voters insist on calling themselves thick/ racist/uneducated? They're really not doing themselves any favours

Are you serious? It's irony.
It's because Remainers insist on calling them thick/racist/uneducated. It's a standard ploy: "you didn't vote the same way as me. It must be because I'm clever & superior and you're thick & uneducated." It's tiresome.

For goodness sake, look at the media over the last year...

You mean like this...
Or Katie Hopkins/Farage spitting their venom all over the radio?
Seeing Leave voters pretend they're victims of some kind of media conspiracy is pretty laughable really.

Just changed

I am not duty bound to explain anything.

It's a web page discussion on people's opinions.

Seizing on one word of a post and disregarding the overall tone or sentiment is misleading.

Are you serious?
Yes, I'm serious. On all the EU threads, sooner or later a Leaver will trot out the 'wah, wah, you think we're all thick racists' line. It's very, very tedious.

Another silly thread started for no other reason than to goad remainers.
Yep.