A Brexiters chat with a German on a Portuguese beach.

[themueslicamel]

Just got back from Portugal and when there was on s beach where I left my shoes on s rock, s nice German chap brought them over and asked me where I was from (London) and how I voted in the referendum.

I was honest and told him I backed leave and we had an interesting conversation.

I told him my reasons for doings so, pro Europe, anti EU and confirmed I was for immigration, just having controls over who we let in and in what number.

I said we should and will take our share of refugees however I did not like the way the EU was going with the EU army on the horizon and feels we should look to trading freely with the rest of the world too.

He said many Germans feel let down as they need us as an economic powerhouse to pay in and we should close the borders with Africa and send all of the migrants back.

Some of his views seemed to be along the lines of what is often thrown against brexiters, and I appreciate it was a lone view but closing borders and sending people back seemed at least to him to be the way forward.

Not sure where I am going with this, just thought it may be of interest on this forum and provide an alternate (albeit limited) prospective.

Yes you said earlier that you had a hunch. It doesn't seem to be borne out by any evidence but why let that stop you?

Stop jumping to victimhood, sadly it is a Leaver trait. Produce me some more principled intelligent and honest Leavers instead of quoting to me to Leavers who have a track record of spouting ignorant bilge. It hasn't taken me over a year to work out that Davis is a charlatan I worked that out before the vote when reading the Conservative article he wrote before the referendum that got him the job of Minister for exiting the EU. In it he claimed that we would be off the day after the vote to leave negotiating trade deals with the rest of the world which would then kick in within two years as we exited the EU. That was so many levels of wrong, illegal, impractical, no resources, no plan but he was the best qualified Conservative for the job! As to Redwood he has been manifesting his ignorance for years

Produce me some more principled intelligent and honest Leavers instead of quoting to me to Leavers who have a track record of spouting ignorant bilge.

I'm not a victim, although I like your comment about producing some more intelligent, principled and honest leave voters

I am going to assume you mean more as in additional, or is it more as in cleverer more honest or higher principles than me!

I am not happy with how it's going either though, can't say I am pleased with May, although would labour be any better, I doubt it...

General Elections seem to me to be about who you think is the least incompetent rather than who is electable, and while I admire Corbyns principles, I could never vote for him.

I love leavers, politicans are liars and they hate beauracrats, but it is these people they rely completely on to make the decisions about brexit.

I know! But for a leaver it's perfectly rational to say: "They're all incompetent, they're all rubbish, but yes, whoever they are, I want them to deal with the biggest event in British history since the second world war. I want them to make new trade laws, I want them to sort out our boarders, I want them to replace EU laws with better ones, I want them to sort out immigration the way I want it, want them to 'take back control', I want them to do it all even though actually I don't like or trust any of them."

But who else do you expect to deal with it?

The bloke who did MOT recently?

Old Tom up the road?

Capable though they are, these people are didn't cause this mess.

Politicians got us into this mess in 1975, made it worse with the ERM and Maastricht treaty, call me Dave staked his career on it and was last seen on the lucrative speaking circuit, so quite frankly they can sort it out now.

No, no, in 1975 it was the "will of the people" and that must never be criticised.

The problem is that with on one point you criticise these groups of people as being over paid, corrupt etc, yet then you are happy for them to sort brexit out.

You can't have it both ways.

Agreed, a vote is a vote, can't argue with that or call them stupid.

They understood what they were doing.

As I said, they caused this mess, they can sort it.

Muesli We were discussing politicians, so unless you are one of those rumoured to come here undercover, is that you Mrs Gove? it is not about you....

Haha, I am unpopular enough as it is for wanting out of the EU, if I told you I was Mrs Gove m, the evil mil, working undercover for the daily fail whilst parking over someone's dropped kerb without a diagram it couldn't get much worse

Yeah, it could get worse - do you have a toilet brush lurking in your downstairs loo?

...or do you take your shoes off/not take your shoes off when visiting?

Must have missed the toilet brush one but I do as it happens, is that good or bad.
Definitely take shoes of though, and expect others to do the same in my house!

Apparently toilet brushes are bad.

As is the shoes off thing.

And don't even think about feeding your children anything other than falafel, olives and hummus.

Oh, well that's three more nails in the coffin then!

Just out of interest, with 3 DC's, if you don't have a toilet brush stashed discreetly behind the karzi, how are you supposed to deal with the "detritus" you would normally use sad brush for?

And I have seen wooden floors such as mine ruined by a stray stone wedged in a trainers elaborate grip, no shoes off, no coming in.....

What the ref did was to split the country. Possibly a third to a half of people voted without conviction or much interest on Jun 23rd. By June 24th, the half who voted out were baying for WTO and the other half were adamant that the EU was the answer to the world's ills. The ref hardened and radicalised a lot of opinions. I include myself in this categorisation actually (always been a Europhile but now I'm Bremoaner/Brexit Bore extraordinaire). With these diametrically opposed positions however, no compromise seems to be on the horizon. This sceptred isle just got a bit more so.