A Brexiters chat with a German on a Portuguese beach.

[themueslicamel]

Just got back from Portugal and when there was on s beach where I left my shoes on s rock, s nice German chap brought them over and asked me where I was from (London) and how I voted in the referendum.

I was honest and told him I backed leave and we had an interesting conversation.

I told him my reasons for doings so, pro Europe, anti EU and confirmed I was for immigration, just having controls over who we let in and in what number.

I said we should and will take our share of refugees however I did not like the way the EU was going with the EU army on the horizon and feels we should look to trading freely with the rest of the world too.

He said many Germans feel let down as they need us as an economic powerhouse to pay in and we should close the borders with Africa and send all of the migrants back.

Some of his views seemed to be along the lines of what is often thrown against brexiters, and I appreciate it was a lone view but closing borders and sending people back seemed at least to him to be the way forward.

Not sure where I am going with this, just thought it may be of interest on this forum and provide an alternate (albeit limited) prospective.

The existing pattern of regulation will not only be amended by the current parliamentary process. The government plan to use Henry VIII powers to bypass the parliamentary process to amend legislation so that they can get through all the legislative load imposed by Brexit. The banks are assuming a high degree of probability of change because this is exactly the sort of complex regulatory frameworks that the government will want to deal with by that power grab reserved powers. Wake up to what you voted for!

The so called Henry VIII laws are according to the Brexit Secretary David Davis, only to be used in a time limited fashion, and are not the ability to do what you want without parliaments approval.

johnredwoodsdiary.com/2017/03/28/henry-viii-clauses/

I agree with you about hedge fund managers though, a bit like Henry VIII too for that matter. 🤴🏽

according to David Davis Was that after four glasses or seven and was he twiddling his glasses? (Sign he is lying again - see the Twitter of his former chief of staff). Those four words, you really should not have bothered with the rest of the post. As I say wake up to what you voted for.

And John Redwood? Seriously? 😂😂😂😂

I wonder if there is a German version of Mumsnet, Mammasnetz, where a German racist has posted "A German meets a Brit on a Portugeese beach" and portrays the rest of the UK as subscribing to the thoughts of Chairman Redwood 😰😰😰😰

A politician lying, whatever next?

Not sure lying is confined to any particular group of politicians though.

The text referring to the Henry 8 clause is accurate though.

A politician lying whom you have used to prove a point, his analysis of Heny VIII laws is incorrect too.

I love leavers, politicans are liars and they hate beauracrats, but it is these people they rely completely on to make the decisions about brexit.

Ah that's ok because you like them?

BS.

Then that indicates a mistrust of politicians in general, which will be applied cross boarders, including those spunking €€€€€ of Citizens money on the EU gravy train.

Even fullfact.org describe the EU accounts as being :

" Accurate since 2007, but they record significant errors in how money is paid, and this has been the case since 1995."

All aboard 🚂€€€€€€€€€€

Grrr, borders even

I think Muesli's posts beautifully demonstrate typical Leave logic:

Don't call us 'racist' - (I am now going to post some comments from a racist I met and have taken seriously.)

The racist I met demonstrates a view of Brexit from out the UK - oh no he doesn't, forget that.

Don't call baby-boomers privileged - but for some reason I am now going to list some privileges they have enjoyed.

Listen to the wise older people - they are not selfish, (no one said that) how dare you? They are sensibly handing down money to their own family.

Don't listen to economists, scientists, ex-politicians, academics etc - they've got their nose in the trough. What?! Bribery! How dare you! I would never suggest such a thing.

Listen to this politician, he talks sense - ha, yes, so politicians are all liars, yes, I know that.

I may have Farage, UKIP, the EDF, every racist, Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Davis, Trump, Putin on my side, but you have the war-mongering Tony Blair. Nurh.

I am also going to throw in an incomprehensible bit about the second world war because that was when we was great.

The EU is a cancer. Um. But cut it out, operate, etc, etc, things will be great in about twenty years time everyone!

Get over it?

And the finale: Hey everyone, let's unite and be friends!!

Ah the accounts point.

I'm happy to debunk this for you. The issue with the EU accounts is not with how the EU spends the money, but how the money given to national governments is spent outside EU compliance rules. Essentially the issue is that some of the money isn't allocated properly under EU guidelines by national governments. Including the UK.

It actually explains that in the full fact bit that you try to validate your point with.

So again, a nonsensical , counterfactual point.

Leave or remain, this is a good source of info

fullfact.org

Apologies to EDF being included in that list of twats.

To be honest, I am happy that we are having a reasonable debate without the insults I have encountered previously.

Normally you can rearrange any of the following words/phrases into a typical remain response

Uneducated, thick, they don't understand, racist, stupid, didn't know what they were doing, have changed the minds, are sorry they voted leave.

Yawn!

To insult those of a different argument lowers us all, as like most things in life, things aren't so black and white.....

You could plot politicians on a matrix with two intersecting axis, the horizontal one x based on degree of honesty and the vertical one y based on degree of intellect. As a measure Trump would be at the (ironically) far left of the honesty axis and Obama at the far right, and Trump at the bottom of the intellect axis (though i don't doubt there are even stupider ones but lets face it not so many so cognitively impaired in terms of judgement by dementia / narcissistic personality personality) and Obama at the top. So far bottom left and far top right respectively.

I do prefer my politicians in the top right quadrant. I do think you could put Vince Cable there, Anna Soubrey, Chukka, Lammy, Norman Lamb and Corbyn (except Corbyn is down the axis on intelligence because he lacks the emotional intelligence to be a good leader) and Ken Clarke . I think Michael Heseltine may be straying towards the dishonest end of the axis (Westland and all) with, and I am sorry, Nick Clegg (I don't think he is otherwise unprincipled, certainly not on Brexit, but there was a whiff of being naively seduced away from his strongly made promises on student loans by the glamour of office and bromance with Cameron).

Osbourne and Cameron are firmly in the top left, along with most of the Brexit campaigners involved in the European Research Group What's App. Baker, Rabb, Gove, Johnson, Mogg etc. (we'll give Cameron a bit of a free pass on intelligence because aside from the monumental stupidity of the Brexit vote he was otherwise considerably brighter than what has followed.) The latter are the scary ones who will scheme and manipulate to further their far right agenda. Furthering and exploiting Henry VIII powers are only a small part of that.

May, her Brexiteers (apart from Boris) and Redwood, are in the bottom left, dishonest and not even clever about it.

I think we should reserve the bottom right quadrant for Leadsom, so stupid I really think she is being honest.

I would do this on the software but can't be arsed when I usually earn money doing it and posting a pic on Mumsnet would not really work

I may have Farage, UKIP, the EDF, every racist, Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Davis, Trump, Putin on my side, but you have the war-mongering Tony Blair. Nurh.

Forgot some

Farage, sits with Trump. Blair with Cameron.

Putin, yeah we have someone to put at the top left....

So generally

Bottom left = stupid and dishonest

Top right = Clever and honest

And with a few adjustments for intellect coincidentally

Bottom left = Leave

Top right = Remain

I've wasted my breath here haven't I?

muesli I have put Leavers in the top right, just hard to think of any that have been that honest........

The Norths are Brexit bloggers so not really politicians but they have influence and they would go into the top right. Read and respected by many remainers because they understand and own up to the complexity and problems

I've wasted my breath here haven't I?

What on earth was it you were trying to say? I really don't know.

As you like the cancer analogy, I thought I'd add an anecdote about being in a London hospital on the day of the ref result. The porters, the admin staff and many patients were whooping, reading the papers, and laughing with delight. The Doctors, many nurses, the physios, the psychs, etc, were distressed, well, some of them were crying. They understood what it means for the NHS. That's something Brexitters like you can be proud of in the "painful and not pretty" times that you voted for.

Here we go again,

Stupid uneducated people happy

Clever people who understand crying.

Do remember on the march though, that if 100,000 people turn up, that's still only appropriately 5% of the amount of extra votes the leave campaign received over the remain side.

But its true thecamel.

You realise several hundred thousand leave voters have died since the vote right? Lots of people wouldn't vote the same way because of the shower of shit it turns out to look already.

several hundred thousand leave voters have died since the vote right?

I would like to see evidence of this, is it on the death certificate?

This is here-say based on statistics, utter nonsense*.
*

So is yours, its actually 7% .

More elderly voters voted for brexit, there are approximately half a million deaths per year, most of them elderly. I think my stat is probably pretty on the money.

you are the one producing racist brexit supporters, don't you remember? I can't help it if my anecdotes support yours.

Apologies, looked at the wrong website 7.8%

Your figures are based on statistics though 28% didn't vote at all, plenty of young people voted leave and also unfortunately die.

As for the old, it's relatively true that older people were more likely to vote leave and to again unfortunately die, but by no means a hard and fast rule.

If we had a voted again today based on those that are still able to produce CO2 voting as they did before, I doubt it would be much different.