The Brexit Arms. All welcome.

[surferjet]

So.....how are we all?

howabout In fact I have seen academic work suggesting that Uni fees in England are only necessary to curb the flow of EU Nationals.

Can you link please? As a uni employee, I would be really interested in seeing this.

Bear That kind of twattery just about sums up why the country will remain divided. When almost half the voting population considers Brexit to be a disaster, a loud 'celebration' would alienate non-supporters even further. As you say, these MPs should focus instead on working out a positive Brexit strategy that will benefit the whole country. Still, I guess it's the sort of thing that would appeal to some of the posters on here.

When almost half the voting population considers Brexit to be a disaster, a loud 'celebration' would alienate non-supporters even further

That's the whole point though. Goading. We've seen it on this thread. We see it in the football match analogy - we won, you lost. They think its a game. They've won the lottery, but the money will never turn up. Lets see their humour when the country is fucked.

Caroline, your links don't show what they think you do, nor do the show how leaving the EU will mean that these issues will be resolved ( as we are still part of ECHR and PACE).

You portray the EU as forcing the UK to do things it doesn't want, yet cannot give examples of this, and in fact on many occasions you confuse the EU with other international organisations.

!Immigration is a huge issue. 500m EU citizens, 1.6m migrants coming into the EU since 2014 with the numbers increasing year on year. Yet all remainers will offer is continued open borders. In what mad, economical world does any remainer live, who champions that?"

Yet every time you raise the "issues" regarding immigration they are throughly disproven.

Tell me what you think the issues of immigration are again?

"We dont need to persuade you of anything. We dont need your approval. We're leaving the EU. If you cant understand it, thats really not my problem. "

So again back to the essence of the remain/leave debate:

Leave voters state a whole bunch of incorrectly identified issues, these are catagorically disprove, Leave voters go: "We're leaving get over it." Without any sense of irony in that the reason we got a referendum in the first place is that the leave side spent 41 years debating the issue.

"In fact I have seen academic work suggesting that Uni fees in England are only necessary to curb the flow of EU Nationals."

Uni fees in England were installed as part of the Conservative austerity drive and are nothing to do with the flow of EU nationals. All University Vice Chancellors signed a letter stating the overwhelming reasons to remain in the EU.

That statement is utter bullshit.

As a uni employee, I would be really interested in seeing this

Me too! Would love to hear more about the critical issue of keeping EU students out of our universities.

howabout if SAAS pays the fees for both Scottish and EU students, does SAAS reclaim the fees from the EU students home country?

I can understand Scottish unis reserving places for international and English students (as clearly demonstrated in clearing for instance and I believe St Andrews was offering places to higher fee paying students before home students for 2017 entry) as they pay way higher fees, but unless SAAS is refunded in some way then there is no difference in the funding received for Scottish or EU students (£1820 per year)?

The funding is not the issue Random. The issue is that, unlike in England, there is a cap on the overall number of places offered to home students in order to afford "free tuition". This means that any increase in educational standards in Scotland whether overall or by closing the attainment gap merely makes competition for the finite places fiercer.

Additionally, it is not a Scottish population of 5m competing for this finite number of places but rather an EU population of 500m.

twofingers it would take more time than I currently have available to dig out the link for you. However there were a couple of threads about a year ago I contributed to on this issue. If you are sufficiently interested I posted the links there.

But that is an issue for the Scottish government to resolve - the home student places are finite due to the limited amount of funding provided by the government.

I'd be really interested to see it too, especially as the introduction of fees was not related to EU students at all.

The reduction in EU students coming to the UK only fell this year because of Brexit, the fees it appeared did not act as a deterrent for the past 5 years.

Random, the removal of the student cap in England isnt trouble free either. The Russell Group were highly vocal about the impact of funding being diverted from research to support ballooning numbers, and opposed it.
The knock on effect of inevitable fee rises was debated at length.

"5m competing for this finite number of places but rather an EU population of 500m."

Yes the entire population of every country in the EU is competing for under graduate university places every year.

The number of undergraduate applicants for this year fell by 7% but was 38,300.

This means that about 8% of all applications this year were from EU countries. I hardly think UK students are being pushed out by their EU counterparts.

Another desperate and counterfactual claim from the quitlings.

For the hard of thinking this article explains the Scottish issue very clearly - whether you express it in population terms or as a proportion of a Uni entry age group Scots only make up 1% of the EU .

In terms of numbers in 2015 according to the article there were 18,600 EU students in Scottish Universities. They tend to be concentrated in higher tariff institutions as the article goes on to explain. In 13/14, at my alma mater they made up about 14.4% of the student body while Scots make up 63%. That translates to over 18% of the capped funded places.

www.scotsman.com/news/education/scots-students-are-losing-out-to-european-counterparts-1-3698428

The Guardian article is older but expresses the SNP government position before they came over all Europhile. The current Labour Party solution would be to remove the cap and think about the cost later, while the Conservatives are in favour of "modest" fees.

www.theguardian.com/education/2011/jan/13/european-student-numbers-soar-scotland

Fair enough.

But Scotland voted to stay in the EU, and the decision to impose the cap was a Scottish government decision.

Whilst leaving the EU may benefit Scottish students getting into Scottish unviersities, it may result in lower funding for these universities.

One of the issues of course is here that Scottish applications to Scottish Universities rose once the increase following the decision to offer free tuition.

Fucking hell, who let The Fox in the coop? Gnashing teeth, feathers and blood all over the parish....

Michael - I know it's a right bloody mess in here, bring back Fox hunting I say

Tally ho chaps.

More lives than a cat that one, @time4chocolate, must have super wiley foxy moves to keep dodging the MNHQ Ban Hammer...

You know I thought that was him again. Jesus Christ how many times has he been back now? must be 7 or 8 in less than a year.
Crazy.

Seems to me the Quiters are resorting to a rather dower mantra of 'we won, we're leaving' because the glittering post-EU world of yesteryear is now looking a lot like Bexhill-on-Sea.

Yes, its all the have left to cling to, shouting "we won" whilst having no idea what the prize is, or why they want it.

He loves it.
Sad man.

A dweeblings, your accusations are hilarious.

I do hope the report post button is being clicked a lot.

But remember, I only do this for fun, and now and again, but I took down your beloved Claig and WinchesterWoman, and a few others.

Loving that you still repeat all the same invalid disporven rubbish when left along for a little whilse, and sit round and nod agreeing with each other. Its hilarious.

As you were.