The Brexit Arms. All welcome.

[surferjet]

So.....how are we all?

Absolutely surfer. Just as the "show me how my life (whatever that is) will be better because I dont understand any of that shit" shit, is all thats left.

Were leaving. My life and that of my children will be hugely improved, hence my vote.

End of.

577 days on the clock

"To you maybe, but 52% of the voting public disagree with you. You still can't get your head around this 14 months later.
You can't accept that you haven't got total control over everyone. You lost. And you will never get over it.

End of."

No, not an end.

I don't care how people vote, I never wanted control over anyone,I don't care how you vote surfer.

I care about the reasons that you voted though, and every single time the quitlings on here try to justify it, it turns out to be in valid or misunderstood.

I care that the people in charge of brexit wrote a manifesto of how they want things to be 5 years ago, but that you were too stupid to go look at it.

I care that people were too stupid to realise that the leave campaign were like a 16 year old boy trying to get his girlfriend into bed, saying anything they could and making promises that they knew they would never keep.

But hey, its your children that will suffer surfer, if like a brexiteer I would enjoy schadenfreude I might have taken some comfort in that. I won't cause I will feel for them.

I will however find it delicious that you will forever know it was you that brought this on them.

"My life and that of my children will be hugely improved, hence my vote"

Yet not once have you been able to explain how or why.

Keep repeating, we are free, keep repeating, we are free.

My life and that of my children will be hugely improved, hence my vote.

Yet you can't give one single example of how that improvement will manifest itself.

But hey, its your children that will suffer surfer, if like a brexiteer I would enjoy schadenfreude I might have taken some comfort in that. I won't cause I will feel for them.

Won't SOMEBODY think of the CHILDREN??!!

This is the MN version of Godwin's Law.

Oh dear, another victim of identity politics.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-40975105

Hey Caroline, y'know when you wave your little union jack, thats identity politics right there.

When you embrace the "us and them" mentality of Brexit thats identity politics right there.

HTH.

The word is not the problem for the SNP. They are no different to any other Nationalists. The desire to benefit encumbency is no different to any other Nationalism whether you define encumbents by race, ethnicity, citizenship or residency. The same could be said of those who favour the EU over an even handed International relationship with all other countries. It is therefore no surprise that the SNP are pro EU.

Good link Caroline but unfortunately not that funny when you see the degree of division the SNP have sown and continue to sew.

However support for the SNP has dropped from 50% in the 2015 GE to 35% in the 2017 GE. That was a key objective of my Brexit vote and so I am already seeing a positive benefit.

No Ghost Nationalism is when you see the Irish tricolours and the Union Jacks at Rangers and Celtic matches. Nationalism is when the Scottish teams adopt O Flower of Scotland rather than Scotland the Brave as a National Anthem. Nationalism is when the SNP seek to wrap themselves in the Saltire to the exclusion of all other views. Nationalism is when the SNP exclude almost 1 m Scots living in England and further afield from Indyref.

HTH

Howabout you've basically described Brexit in your last post. Except for;

The same could be said of those who favour the EU over an even handed International relationship with all other countries.

Evenhanded? Brexit is damaging relations with our nearest neighbours. But that's nothing new though is it? ("Up yours Delors"). The SNP understand the importance of progressive relationships with its european neighbours. Brexit is regressive, isolationist, superiority complex.

Bear I have a concrete example for you. My DDs are due to go to Uni post 2019. At current Scotland has free Uni tuition fees but a capped number of funded places. In Scotland's top Unis EU Nationals take up about 1/3 of these funded places. My DDs are likely to benefit directly from any curb on this. In fact I have seen academic work suggesting that Uni fees in England are only necessary to curb the flow of EU Nationals.

Riiighht, so all the patriotic rhetoric of Brexit had nothing to do with nationalism? Ok. {hmm}

In fact I have seen academic work suggesting that Uni fees in England are only necessary to curb the flow of EU Nationals

Tuition fees exist because universities are run like businesses. Thatcher/Blairs free market in action. But yes, pin it on EU nationals everything else is.

Caroline nice to see the Youtube young leavers.

Worth bearing in mind that "the 75% of young people voted Remain" is based on survey data and the "shy Brexiter" is almost definitely within this demographic.

Also on Scotland voting Remain the turnout was way down on the Indyref, so either Scots care far more about the UK Union than the EU or they were in 2 minds about whether Remaining in the EU was indeed the best way to further their primary Independence objective whether Yes or No. In Indyref the vote was 2m No to 1.6m Yes, but for the EUref the vote was 1.5m Remain to 1m Leave. The 1m Leave vote swung the balance for the whole UK.

This is the very very last time.

None of us can help you if you fail to understand. You fail to understand Lisbon and in doing so, fail to understand that the claims made by the remain camp then and now, were utterly false.

You fail to understand the huge impact of the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights, which indeed does place the ECJ over the ECHR and the Council of Europe. Read and absorb both these. (again)

publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmeuleg/979/979.pdf

In short, where a remainer could possibly get away with slippy weasly rhetoric on the sovereignty question, since this judgment in the ECJ this month, any question on legality has been answered. The leave campaign, and the Scrutiny Committee, have been shown to be absolutely right. No ifs no buts, heres the judgment.

www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=1e0bfca0-892e-474c-a320-632e5dada898

You argue that we have democracy in the EU. You bang your heads against the ignorant leaver wall, that we stupidly are giving up our rights to influence EU policy. (An accepted 'odd' democracy, where most decisions are made by the Commission, sworn to disregard their own national interests and dont go anywhere near 'member states representation)

Yet here we are with a UKIP majority, representing the UK in Brussels. You cant explain why. You cant explain, that the influence youre so frustrated at losing, is a UKIP one.

Immigration is a huge issue. 500m EU citizens, 1.6m migrants coming into the EU since 2014 with the numbers increasing year on year. Yet all remainers will offer is continued open borders. In what mad, economical world does any remainer live, who champions that?
Remainers wont answer. They wont even acknowledge there is an issue.

Well there is. We know there is. The EU knows there is. The world knows there is. Its just remainers, apparently, dont see it. If ever identity politics should be held utterly responsible, its on this one issue of migration.

So instead, in order to avoid these rather glaring inconvenient truths, they now hang their hats on the economic argument.

Unfortunately, the economic arguments from the remain campaign were in short, an utter fuck up. Acknowledged, indeed intended, as 'Project Fear', all they achieved was to discredit anyone who put their name to it.

There is no inevitability whatsoever, that the UK is jumping of any mysterious cliff. We show you there is no cliff, but you just dont get it. We show you why national control on currency and monetary policy is the ONLY secure future. But you just dont get it.

So all youre left with now is, "show me how my life will be better, because I dont understand any of that shit". I cant answer for you. Fuck knows what 'life' you guys live.

We dont need to persuade you of anything. We dont need your approval. We're leaving the EU. If you cant understand it, thats really not my problem.

(Valentine, if youre lurking, I tried. Beyond the point of the patience of Job.)

"Hey Caroline, y'know when you wave your little union jack, thats identity politics right there"

Its flag Ghost. Its the Union flag. And yep, sure is. I wonder what we could call it? Howabout.....Brexit?

"However support for the SNP has dropped from 50% in the 2015 GE to 35% in the 2017 GE."

Coo, Ill drink to that howabout

so identity politics is fine if it suits your worldview...

"so identity politics is fine if it suits your worldview..."

Are you actually suggesting all nations should give up their national flags?

Isnt this the one youre fighting for? Your getting yourself caught up in knots again Ghost.

Unfortunately, the economic arguments from the remain campaign were in short, an utter fuck up. Acknowledged, indeed intended, as 'Project Fear', all they achieved was to discredit anyone who put their name to it.

Tell that to the businesses setting up in Europe as a result of Brexit.

There is no inevitability whatsoever, that the UK is jumping of any mysterious cliff. We show you there is no cliff, but you just dont get it. We show you why national control on currency and monetary policy is the ONLY secure future. But you just dont get it.

How secure does the £ look post referendum?

So all youre left with now is, "show me how my life will be better, because I dont understand any of that shit". I cant answer for you. Fuck knows what 'life' you guys live.

so once again, you'd don't have any positives.

On sovereignty from your own government...

Parliament has “remained sovereign throughout our membership to the EU” despite people “not always feeling like that”, the Brexit White Paper says.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-white-paper-uk-parliament-remian-sovereign-eu-membership-referendum-campaign-brussels-article-a7559556.html

There is no inevitability whatsoever, that the UK is jumping of any mysterious cliff. We show you there is no cliff, but you just dont get it. We show you why national control on currency and monetary policy is the ONLY secure future. But you just dont get it.

Whilst I'm sure you, as in leavers in general, have convinced yourself that you have shown us all these things, I can assure you you haven't.

You haven't even come close.

Tough questions just get dismissed with an 'it'll be fine' followed by 'we're leaving- yay'

Isnt this the one youre fighting for?

No I'm fighting for a progressive, fair and outward looking Britain. But I'm not a patriot likes those who voted to send their country into years of turmoil and uncertainty.

Coming back to my thoughts on London versus Scotland yesterday. House prices in Scotland are just over x4 earnings and are roughly at 2008 levels. House prices for London and the SouthEast are 70% and 50% higher respectively than in 2008. For London the income multiple is between x10 and x20.

This is what is driving the wealth gap described by the Resolution foundation between South East baby boomer encumbents and everyone else. The wage squeeze over the last decade has also been more pronounced in the South East than anywhere else per the earlier linked Guardian articles.

www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/housepriceindex/june2017

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40973859

What is more interesting and less obvious is that it is these same South East babyboomers who voted Brexit. Latest analysis of EU ref result I read indicated that after adjusting for the different demographics of London (ie primarily lack of pensioners and over 50s) it actually voted more in favour of Brexit than comparative demographics elsewhere.

House prices are high in London partially due to foreign buyers skewing figures and also high earners living in the capital. Capital cities generally are expensive for housing. It is the same in Edinburgh.

Housing is cheap in northern areas were there are less employment opportunities and areas damaged by the end of heavy industry. These places - the north east - as an example have benefited from EU funding and also have little immigration.

A disproportionate amount of time is spent worrying about shit like this than actually sorting out the Brexit strategy because this kind of nonsense seems to be important to Leavers.