Page 3 | The Brexit Arms. All welcome.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 04/08/2017 09:53

Oooh I'm going on holiday tomorrow

I know no one cares but i am trying to drum up some excitement in myself...i seem to be weirdly blasé about it all

RandomlyGenerated · 04/08/2017 10:02

Are you off somewhere sunny Rufus? I always find that the day before is a drudge, what with packing and getting the house ready to be locked up - I only get excited when the cases are in the car and we're actually leaving.

We're off to the races today - haven't been for ages so looking forward to it

fakenamefornow · 04/08/2017 10:13

I have a feeling that neither Leave nor Remain are mainly happy with what is happening right now

I think sadly that's the truth of it, and will be long term. Leavers will be angry that Brexit wasn't what they hoped (actually due to the age profile, many of them will be dead) and Remainers will be bitter that it took away what we had. Nobody will be happy with the result.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 04/08/2017 10:22

randomly

Yes greece

Dh and i have been twice for wedding anniversaries and we finally decided to let the children come

Villa with a pool and the beach (which my children hate) 200yards away

Should be lovely , but and this is going to sound awful, we went to Florida again last year (cant afford it this year as well) and that takes so much planning that we are over excited so this hasnt really required much forethought...so i havent

You off anywhere this year?

Caroline ?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 04/08/2017 10:23

Which races randomly

Carolinesbeanies · 04/08/2017 10:24

Have a lovely holiday Rufus, Im sure we'd all agree nothing will have changed by the time you come back.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 04/08/2017 10:31

Cant argue with that caroline

RandomlyGenerated · 04/08/2017 11:25

Glorious Goodwood rufus, although we will be slumming it in the cheap seats

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 04/08/2017 12:21

Oooh very nice

I think two of my friends are going as well

Hooe the weather holds for you

SapphireStrange · 04/08/2017 17:03

assume this bit of predictable bile "Baby boomers throwing the rest of us - inc their own kids and grandkids - under a bus." relates to erasmus?

Happy to be corrected, but I'd have thought it refers to this survey

Fair warms the cockles, doesn't it?

Mrsmartell08 · 04/08/2017 17:18

It does indeed sapphire

WrongTrouser · 04/08/2017 22:43

Good evening. Haven't been in for yonks. Just wanted to post this from Guy V's latest tweet about the leave lie EU army.
alde.eu/en/news/320-a-roadmap-towards-eu-integrated-military-forces/

Valentine2 · 04/08/2017 23:33

He is probably trying to make sure we don't sell the lives of British soldiers cheap to war criminal US presidents in far off countries connected to Europe via land.
(Posted this in the other thread. Posting here too)
I wonder if the people going on and on about a probable military force of EU have ever tried to see this from the perspective of the people who have been at the receiving end of western aggression in the last two decades.
Call me cynic but Just thinking if anyone in Iraq or Afghanistan would be that bothered about a bomb that comes from some allied EU army or the political and very physical NATO bombs.
Can this army be hired off to USA on demand? Like we keep doing for national security of course.

WrongTrouser · 04/08/2017 23:54

I think it's probably a bit late to have a discussion about the benefits and drawbacks of an EU army (fwiw I think it's a terrifying idea and not that there is some emphasis on use for "internal" purposes). We could have had this discussion before the referendum if leavers hadn't been called liars and fools every time they brought it up (see numerous past threads).

WrongTrouser · 04/08/2017 23:55

That should say "note that there is some emphasis"

Valentine2 · 04/08/2017 23:58

I wasn't around the referendum boards before referendum result really so no idea on what you are trying to say. but I think a discussion on this is in order.

squishysquirmy · 05/08/2017 00:03

If only we had a veto on that EU army, eh? But we gave that up.

time4chocolate · 05/08/2017 00:40

Squishy - do you actually believe that?Schultz already said back last year that we won't have a veto on an EU army whether we are in or out.

Any veto promised would be just hot air and be worth didly squat and there would be nothing we could do about it in or out. I am fed up of hearing people say we can change from within, no we can't, (and I think this will become more obvious as the years go on) we are just one country out of 27. What France and Germany want France and Germany usually get and do you honestly think they would back down on something like this because our small country disapproved? I say not a cat in hells chance.

Valentine2 · 05/08/2017 02:31

the reference for that time? Because I don't understand how can you be in EU and be made part of the supposed army and have no veto?

Carolinesbeanies · 05/08/2017 08:44

. "but I think a discussion on this is in order."

Luckily for you, leavers were on the ball.

There is no 'veto' valentine because a/ the German military expansion was officially accepted under their 'Framework Nations Concept' back in 2014, and various EU states have already joined voluntarily but b/ the MEPs voted last November, as you were told regularly in the 2 years previously, that they were going to do.

You voted remain, you voted for an EU army. Your democratically elected MEPs voted for it in November 2016, 360 odd votes to 250odd. That ship has well and truly sailed. Luckily for us and our national security, we voted Brexit, but annoyingly the EU are trying to sting us with this new 'defence' cost in our brexit bill. Im with Boris. They can go whistle.

Carolinesbeanies · 05/08/2017 08:55

"Can this army be hired off to USA on demand? Like we keep doing for national security of course."

Unlike NATO, which has very clear guidelines as to what constitutes acts of aggression, and therefore NATO involvement (and which almost all EU states are a member), the 'EU army' is focussed on military expansion and integration. How it will be used is anyones guess, no guidelines have even been tabled.

squishysquirmy · 05/08/2017 09:40

Yes, I believe that there is no way we would have been forced to join an EU army against our will.
We might not have been able to stop other countries within the EU integrating their armed forces more, but we would have had a hell of a lot more influence than we do now. Like you said - we were only one out of 28 countries. Hence why we couldn't dictate whatever we wanted to the other countries, which is what seems to have pissed some (not all) leavers off. But neither were we silently obedient, powerless and dictated to as is claimed by some.
Its like me getting pissed off because my MP isn't running the country, and demanding that my constituency break away from the rest of the UK.

I, too would like to see a reference for that Schultz quote.

Carolinesbeanies · 05/08/2017 09:47

Great stuff squishy, youll join us then in refusing to pay the 'defence' portion of the EU brexit bill. Have a Brexit Arms

howabout · 05/08/2017 10:04

Presume an EU army would involve EU27 spending up to their NATO commitments. If that comes to pass will be interesting to see if Trump hails it as a victory.

Valentine2 · 05/08/2017 13:21

What I genuinely don't understand is why there is so much resistance against a concept like an EU army?
so for example, could the illegal war of aggression in Iraq and Afghanistan launched by our very own pseudo left PM be prevented if we had an EU army? Because in such a case Blair would have to be accountable to all the nations in EU army actually? If that's true, there is absolutely no way in he whole wide world that our younger generation (under 45s) would be against an EU army concept.