The Brexit Arms. All welcome.

[surferjet]

So.....how are we all?

"Who does that make you"

It makes me nothing because in the analogy, the Walrus and the Carpenter convice the oysters to do something against their own benefit .
I voted to remain.

The little Brexiteers voters are the oysters, and the Walrus and The carpenter are the right wing establishment that convinced them it would be in their own interests.

Agreed on the fact that lots of clever people can't spell, but it wasn't your spelling that was incorrect, it was your grammar, and it was you that on another thread used MENSA membership to defend your intelligence. On a forum where medium is the written word, it is fine to critique your spelling and grammar if you have bragged of your own intelligence.

I really do despair of the fact we're still at the stage where, instead of continuing a discussion on the reality of this situation, leavers like mummy are still reverting to 'I won you lost'

Has it not occurred to you that in not admitting we will be leaving the EU, which so many leavers on here seem to find hard to comprehend, you fail to see that what follows, really is very simple.
The Eu won't budge.
They will lose face, and 27 countries need to then agree even if they do decide anything.
UK don't think we need to pay the massive amount requested.
Unless the amount can be sorted there is no trade deal.
No Trade deal means WTO.
This seems like basic logic to me.

Please tell me how this can change.
Please use simple one line statements.
Keep it Simple Stupid.

Bear that's pretty much the summary of mummmy's arguments.
'Brexit is happening'
We won, you lost'
Err....that's it.
If she genuinely is a MENSA member, I think they need to look at their entry criteria again. I can accept that some highly intelligent people aren't great at SPAG. I find it harder to accept that one of their members can't come up with one good reason why leaving the EU is beneficial for this country which indicates a complete lack of critical thinking.
There are a few people on these threads who can put forward a well thought out case for Brexit. She isn't one of them.

Does it not occur to you that in a democracy, which you claim that you hold important, it is still allowed to critque, to disset and to oppose?

The UK does think it needs to pay, and has already offered a sum, it will be negotiated.

If the UK does not pay, then there may be challenges to WTO membership as the EU has a veto ( as does Argentina and 20 other countries that the UK held up membership for).

Simple enough for you MENSA?

But what will really happen is:

ThThe UK will pay a sum of money.
The UK will continue to pay money for access to markets.
The UK will replicate all EU legislation in order to continue to have access to markets.
The UK will implement all regulations in order to keep exporting to the EU.
The UK will replicate deals that it already has with other countries.
FOM will continue in some form.

Brexit will be in name only, and only to convince MENSA members like you that it has happened.

bathildabagshot1 sat on your pile of money your going to be very upset when you don't get your own way...

Always a pleasure to see smallfox back on these threads.

I can confirm that there is absolutely no SpaG in the MENSA test.
The 3 components are linguistics, which is said to favour those with MC upbringing, mental maths and logic puzzles and interpretation and manipulation of pictoral analysis. Now I may need to look it up to check

BTW generally considered bad form to quote from other threads and follow a poster around.

What does 'disset' mean?

I think you are right faith

I don't think the personal insults are necessary however it is quite astounding that people still think it's as simple as moving onto WTO and living happily ever after.

My pile of money is going to get me everything I want, don't you realise that? The problem is for people who haven't been as fortunate as me. I will be able to buy visas, I will be able to move money around the globe etc.

The poor sods who were convinced that this is their kick against the establishment and it will make them better off are the ones who are going to suffer.

Dissent, sorry, typo, but I haven't claimed to be a genius and used that to disparage others.

Bearbehind
I don't think it will be happily ever after.
I don't quote numbers and law as I am saying what I feel, what I think may happen and as each month has gone on more and more of what I say has happened.
We have just hears about the Irish issue and I did say about 2 weeks ago that this made more sense, and now the Government have said what I thought. I did get flamed for that.

I keep saying how do you get 27 countries to agree, and a lot of what bathildabagshot1 say Will happen would need them all to agree to this. I just think this is wishful thinking.
I really don't see any other way than the WTO which we are already a member of and can use to trade from day 1.

The poor sods who were convinced that this is their kick against the establishment and it will make them better off are the ones who are going to suffer. they are already suffering and this was why the voted to leave. Maybe your money has made you disassociated from the common man.

the WTO which we are already a member of and can use to trade from day 1.

We are a member under our current status as EU members, no? So would need to renegotiate a deal even to 'just' be WTO members once outside the EU.

"How do you get 27 countries to agree".

Seems to happen a lot in the EU to be fair.

We can't trade under WTO status from day 1, our schedules must be agreed by all members. This is the problem with WTO status, we are members, but we have not got schedules agreed. Unless we are going to trade under the exact same schedules as the EU, which makes it even more stupid that we are leaving.

"They are already suffering and this was why the voted to leave. "

But little of the suffering is to do with the EU.

Who gets the fishing quotas? Decisions are made at national goverment level.

Just an example.

No we are a member we would simple split our share from the Eu share, we have to provide a Schedule anyway and it will be needed to leave the EU, then it is up to members to object, but we can trade from day 1.
www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-statement/Commons/2016-12-05/HCWS316/

Yes but a lot of our deals were sort of made for us, as in we had no choice but to let other members fish out waters.
Had we stayed we would now be helping fund an EU army, as they have said they want it to happen.
I know you can't see it from my point of view, but maybe it is the Newspapers and the TV and the bias they place upon slanting things towards the EU that has lead the common man to think the EU and they power they hold is just too much a case of do as we say, Big Brother style. This has lead to when the vote happened more people who held this view have put a tick on the paper, while others just expected the vote to be as David Cameron said and so didn't bother to vote or even registrar to vote.
There has to be knowledge in Government that we can do this, we are capable of leaving and making it work, otherwise every MP would have been out everyday telling anyone they could get hold of to vote Remain.

"Had we stayed we would now be helping fund an EU army, as they have said they want it to happen."

No we wouldn't, and it isn't .

"otherwise every MP would have been out everyday telling anyone they could get hold of to vote Remain."

The vast majority of MPs did tell their constituents to vote remain, including the Prime Minister. The ones who didn't are the right wing ideologues and others that thought it would be good for their career.

You can't say that about the MP's.
I just looked it up and it says 50/50 split in Tory and more or less 100% of Labour wanted to stay. Yet this means that the very people who should have been working to stay in the EU failed to convince the people who voted of the necessity to vote.
So in the end what it came down to is we the common man decided anything is better then the EU.
EU army another surprise in store for you then, I really think it will happen even if it's called by a different name and sorted by Germany and France.

"So in the end what it came down to is we the common man decided anything is better then the EU. "

No, see that wasn't what was sold to the public, it was 350 million a week for the NHS, less immigration so better public services, more protection for workers, "taking back control" etc.

At no point did any of the leave campaigners say, well it might be hard for 10 years and then we will get back to the economy being where it was whilst we were in the EU. Oh and you the common man will be worse off for all of that time, but you know it will be worth it.

They promised instant gratification, instantly better, its not going to happen.

Painting a political campaign that was led by the highly privileged, right wing ideologues and funded by billionaire media owners as a victory for the common man is just incorrect.

But no one I knew fell for the bus sign. We thought it was a gimmick, yes a good one.
You know if you get a Divorce both sides have a share, no one takes it all.
Can you honestly truthfully tell yourself you believe ever person who voted leave thought we were heading to the land of milk and honey. I know your more intelligent than that, I know you understand there really must have been reasons for so many to want to leave, or all the people would have voted remain.

Painting a political campaign that was led by the highly privileged, right wing ideologues and funded by billionaire media owners as a victory for the common man is just incorrect.

Amen to that.

"But no one I knew fell for the bus sign."

Doesn't mean there weren't a significant number who did. It was a highly effective and emotive point that swayed a lot of people. Denying it after the fact is irrelevant.

The problem you and every other leave poster has is this, no where in the leave campaign was there any point about things getting worse for the common man, all the risks were shouted down as "PROJECT FEAR" and explained away with vacuous counterfactual statements. The leave campaign didn't admit to any risks for leaving, but sold it as the land of milk and honey.

Trying to revise it now and saying: " well everyone knew that..." Is simply that revisionism.

When things are worse for all in 10 year no one will admit to have voted leave.