The Brexit Arms. All welcome.

[surferjet]

So.....how are we all?

Yeah having read that Heritage Foundation stuff, its tripe tbh.

Oh FFS Bathilda, youre making yourself look a pratt. Go and read the posts again. Go read the paper. Then write to the Judge and tell him he was mistaken. Write to the Scrutiny committee that produced the parliamentary paper and tell them the same.

When youve received a reply from them saying, gosh we're sorry, we did make a fundamental mistake over The Charter, why didnt you tell us earlier Bathilda, then come back and show us.

Im not going to draw diagrams for you so you can do Brexit in pictures and crayons. Perhaps Random may humour you, but I wont. Take your clumsy racist direction somewhere else.

Bear, Im really not in the mood today. So in the spirit of being a damp squid in The Arms, Im popping off home to watch a rom com. Ill be back when Im in a better mood.

Pretty much exactly how I read the Parliamentary paper Caroline which is why I had to console myself checking the HRA status and the status of WTO rulings and their interaction with the EU was as I understood it.

Re socialist sex I clicked through to the underlying documentary while cooking the dinner yesterday. I reckon it had more to do with scarcity of men, sex education, outlawing pornography, attitudes to nudity, availability of contraception and abortion and sex and relationships. Depressing that re-unification seems on the whole to have gone backwards in this regard. Was a tad awkward explaining to the teenagers why I was watching explicit content but nevertheless fascinating.

Enjoy the romcon. I'm not fit for anything cos the DC went back to school so I celebrated with 45 minutes serious swim training

Slightly surprised to hear immigration. was why I voted to leave.
I voted to leave because I have watched the EU change over 30 years, and they want the United States of EU. I don't
I have and always will be Shocked the "Call me Dave" called this Election.

However the thought of being free to rule ourselves and not have to always ask someone else's permission to do things, was just to great an opportunity to walk away from.
The world is opening up for everyone, and we deserve the right to engage with others, in trade and other ideas.
It may take time but I feel we have create pain but once the cure hits in we will as the 5th largest trading nation once more prove why you can never write of the UK.

Are there any Leavers out there who are pleased with yesterday's developments i.e., the Brexit 'plan' continues to hinge on the concept that 'they need us more than we need them' and we have no plan to actually 'leave' the customs union in March 2019 not least because we simply don't have the infrastructure to cope with a change in tariffs/ checks.

Does anyone honestly think the EU are going to allow us to carry on as we were for a few years after March 2019 with all the upside of membership and none of the downsides?

Never thought it could be anything but WTO.
We all trade under this agreement, it's just right now our share is lumped in with the EU.
I still think how can you get an agreement when one side can't and one side won't.

Struggling to see why the EU would want to be or would be the first to impose customs checks and tariffs. We are proposing no change in this regard which even fits with Varadkar's plan. Nippy thinks the proposal is so close to the status quo we may as well not bother with the negotiation.

I suppose the only danger for the EU is that rEU27 would want to start negotiating external bilateral agreements but their central premise so far has been strength in numbers so I don't see that happening. The trade off for them is that we get freedom externally and they get to reorganise internally without us continually dragging our heels.

In contrast to Mummy I don't think WTO is likely as I agree with Redwood that it would be too much to the detriment of the EU as compared to what we are offering.

But WTO isn't what is being proposed?

This fantasy proposal of just carrying on as before is the best the government can come up with.

WTO is the default position if no other deal can be reached.

Missed the last sentence:

Even WTO needs to be agreed

More important things to consider this morning. BBC tells me Nestle are removing the walnut from walnut whips. What is the point of a walnut whip without walnuts? Turns out walnut trees give an even slower production yield than malt whisky and UK land prices are too high anyway for home production. Just got to hope for a decent bilateral deal with Chile.

Anyway unemployment down, gap between wage growth and inflation blip shrinking, zero hours contracts being substituted for proper jobs, employment rate up. Looks like a tea and cake morning.

I still read it as no one want to give.
So no deal so WTO.
Also no matter what the deal is it has to be agreed by the 27.
Not happening so WTO.

Yet WTO still has to be agreed by ALL WTO members including those that still hold a grudge against the UK

"I voted to leave because I have watched the EU change over 30 years, and they want the United States of EU. I don't"

Never going to happen, and if it was proposed we don't have to join in, in fact we had a veto.

How many more moronic things can you come up with.
Caroline's very, very obscure points regarding sovereignty may not change as we are still part of PACE and the ECHR, again not a reason to leave.

WTO? The WTO have to accept our schedules, which basically will be the same as what we had in the EU,

Cloaking yourself in obscure and intangible points about sovereignty ( and having talked to one of the people on the scrutiny comittee he agrees with me on my reading that a good number of things will not change in or out of the EU), or spurious reasons as Mummy has given ( your intellect really is towering, sure you got in to MENSA) doesn't hide the fact that the majority of voters who opted to leave did so on immigration issues, or incorrect readings of the situation.

WTO
The EU, for instance, has not certified its schedules since 2004, but in the meantime, has altered its schedules to reflect successive waves of enlargement.
Basically that.

Just think how many of us are there in this conversation, and can you say we all agree on any one thing?

Freemovement.
Trade agreement.
Amount we owe.

If we live in the same country and can't agree how do you expect 27 different places to agree? That is what it all comes down to. No matter what the Big Blokes at the table talk about, in the end it has to go before everyone else, why can't you see this is beyond the realms of easy, and is unicorn land.

But its you that voted for unicorns not me dimwit ( really MENSA? Don't make me laugh)

Our WTO schedule will be exactly the same as what we have in the EU because otherwise we have nothing to offer others in a FTA or PTS.

Our schedules have to be approved by the WTO, and you know what this means? It means our tax, subsidies etc are all agreed and fixed and we can't change it without asking permission, and if we do, we have broken legally binding agreements with a super national union with which some sovereignty is shared.

Ohhh MensaMummy you really are so much fun.

Nice cut and paste there mummmy. It's good form to link to your source though:

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/brexit-explained/brexit-explained-10-things-know-about-world-trade-organization-wto

Once the UK has declared its schedules and started trading, other countries in the WTO may object, particularly if they can demonstrate that the UK has in some way reduced the level of market access on offer.

If there are challenges, these could be lengthy and expensive for the UK to contest. However, the disputes are likely to take several years to resolve, during which time the UK would be able to continue trading off its schedules (whether or not they have been certified). This means that potential disputes are a medium- or long-term challenge to the UK at the WTO, and not an immediate threat to our post-Brexit trading arrangements.

sorry forgot the link. same place as before.
bathildabagshot1
You make me shake my head, your forgetting the most important piece to the puzzle wait for it here it comes.
I loved out and I won.
Brexit is going to happen.
27 in a room and you think they will all agree.
Woops nice joke.

You won nothing apart from lower prosperity for your self and your children, fewer life chances for your children, fewer rights for you and children.

Your MENSA certificate is written in crayon, you won nothing, but the fact that you think you did is what is leading us over the cliff edge.

Convice yourself that your prejudices are correct all you like, you haven't put a coherent argument for them here.

MENSA my arse.

I don't have too.
You do understand that don't you.
You do understand the difference between stay and leave.
Pretty sure you don't.

That should read "I don't have to". Tell me again about your towering intellect?

I understand the difference between stay and leave, the difference is I understand that leave means a whole lot of work to make ourselves poorer, whilst we make the free market fundamentalists ( who are already rich) richer. All at the expense of the common man, whom brexit was supposed to be about.

I'm rich, my children will be rich, we are insulated. I will help family members when they need it. Most of those voting for brexit are not, they were misled, and their prejudices based on poor education played on.

Basically its the Walrus and the Carpenter, but I don't expect you to understand that.

Mummy just as likely the EU will opt for the status quo per the UK proposal because agreeing anything else between the 27 would be, as you rightly say, highly unlikely / impossible.

Never, ever thought I would get the opportunity to boast on t'internet that I am an adult tested MENSA gold card carrier

Off to google the Walrus and the carpenter.

Who does that make you ?

The Walrus who called the oyster to follow
The Carpenter who wanted more butter on his bread
The Oyster who stayed behind as he was old and wise
The crowds of Oysters who followed the Walrus and the Carpenter.

By the way someone of the most intelligent people in the world can't spell. And some of the most stupid can, and like to point out errors to impress themselves....

www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43914/the-walrus-and-the-carpenter-56d222cbc80a9

The Walruses on Wild Alaska are truly magnificent beasts and they do indeed seem to have life pretty much figured out. However the main lesson from a week's worth of spectacular wildlife was that there was absolutely plenty to go round no matter how much the bears, wolfs, beavers, whales and walruses gorged themselves without anyone doing their back in sweeping sand.

Which brings us neatly back to eggs and fish stunning and the EU.