Westministenders: No Brexit is Better than a Bad Brexit

[RedToothBrush]

Happy Anniversary!!!

These Threads are officially 1 year old today.

I don't know who started the very first thread, but it was about how Cameron quitting had handed the Boris a poison chalice because he had to be the one to trigger a50 as Cameron walked away without having done it.

Of course Boris didn't become PM, and we found out that triggering a50 and Brexit were even more complex than even the majority of the most informed thought it would be.

A year on we have a minority government, a zombie prime minister, a government who don't really know what the concept of democracy, millions of EU citizens (who include British nationals) who face an uncertain future, the fear of the cliff edge, a huge scandal over inequality and Jeremy Corbyn appearing on the Pyramid Stage at Glastonbury within the hour.

The East Germans were Germans the clue is in the name

I think those most in need of social housing should get it, existing qualifications considered, rather than determining it by an accident of birth. Lot less death that way.

And we've probably hit peak ignorance with that last remark

Well I suppose thats where we differ.

The idea of 'undeserving poor' is a justification for such things lessworriedaboutthecat. So be very careful about using such statement yourself.

Immigrants are just the current at the bottom of the list for 'undeserving poor' as they are the most dispensable as they can't vote in an election.

This is why removing local election voting rights is a big deal. It moves EU citizens closer to the bottom.

Using the idea of 'undeserving poor' because they are 'horrible', 'lazy', 'benefit scrougers', benefit tourists', 'disability fakers' is just playing the game of those who are making money out of the system and the lack of constituency.

You should absolutely focus on the empty houses before you talk about social housing lists are too long for ANY reason.

Think about the questions and what the way you are being lead in beliefs. The solutions are there. But you have to ask the right questions first.

The one about empty houses is a huge one that isn't being asked.

lack of consistency sorry.

bloody auto correct.

There is a need of natality rate to be over 2.1 to keep the population at the same level though...

So at 1.9 children, the overall British population is declining.

how was that ignorant, the East Germans were only East Germans because Germany was divided after the second world war and they were part of the Soviet Zone. When the Berlin wall came down Germany was then free to re-unite. I seem to remember happy Germans clambering over the Berlin Wall and hugging each other and crying.

Go learn some history less or ask a British identifying Northern Irish person how ignorant it is to be called Irish.

The only country in Europe with a population above the rate of replenishment is I believe Ireland.

have I mentioned Ireland once or said anything on the subject of the re-unification of Germany that was incorrect ?

So I assume it means that all eu countries need some immigrants then.

Lurking husband said

"One way out of all this is to simply confer UK citizenship on all EU nationals in the UK.

Much like the entire population of East Germany became "German" overnight when Germany reunified.

Or does the UK lack the resolve and resources of those nasty German types ?"

I pointed out that the East Germans were actually Germans to all intents and purposes.

Or we could have more children.

The East Germans were Germans the clue is in the name

I think Hashi's beaten me to it, but try that glib argument on in N Ireland. Ireland was one country when both my now deceased parents and father in law were born i.e. not something lost in the mists of time, but less than 100 years ago.

Ah well I'm sure the DUP and the rest of the unionist will take Irish reunification lying down then. They are Irish after all, the clue is in the name.

God forbid there's been generations in between with a whole other national identity and culture - which was massive in the case of Germany ffs

have I mentioned Ireland once or said anything on the subject of the re-unification of Germany that was incorrect ?

No, but it looks as though you didn't stop to think. Ireland was one country once - less than a century ago. It was split for political reasons, as was Germany.

Yes Britain's birthrate is about 1.9 children per women so basically at around the rate of replenishment. Replenishment? It has all gone a bit Handmaid's Tale again. Come on girls, get your red capes on it is your duty to produce nice British babies to train as nurses to look after all those babies born in the baby boom of the 50s. in their dotage.

Trouble is all the young British nurses I know have already gone overseas in search of better living and working conditions, and with Brexit, most of the educated young people who made their feelings very clear about the direction the country is taking in both the referendum and our most recent election, have similar plans. They certainly are not amongst those behind a "swift and painless exit" if anyone still believes we are not heading for a chaotic and very painful exit after the incompetence, self interest and blind stupidity we have witnessed in the last 12 months

I have been struggling to keep up along with a worksurge in real life but if not posted already Polly Toynbee on how true patriotism is being expressed in defence of our national institutions, NHS, schools and yes, the BBC, rather than insisting on newspeak in support of Brexit. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/27/andrea-leadsom-patriot-country-bbc-brexit

Apologies for making such a boring post, but what an informative thread this is. Thank you.

Brexit in a nutshell:

What a mess.

Boldlygoing I can really relate your post. I am just so relieved my Mum and PILs are dead (Mum died 3 weeks before Referendum and FIL less than a year before) as can't imagine trying to sort out whatever we would have to do. My Mum came over from Germany in the 60's, I have no idea on what terms. PILs retired to Spain so we'd have had to sort that out too.

Now I just have the fact DD has a partner from the EU who was hoping to come and live here after he graduates at Christmas. None of these are anything to do with any choices I personally have made but DH and I would have ended up trying to sort everything out.

i wonder whether very science orientated DS who is entitled to a German passport will opt to go to Germany in the future? Shame he can't learn German at school as it was dropped last year.

Good luck less with trying to convince women to have more children...
unless you're also happy to give subsidies for nurseries (right from what? 3months old) so people can afford nursery fees
You are able to convince women to have children earlier - incl that their career will not be affected by having children etc etc etc

If the natality rate has gone done everywhere in Europe, incl in countries like France who always has had a policy supporting a high natality rate (incl a LOT of benefits associated with having mor than two children etc...), then it means that oter issues are at play.
Issues no one has been able to solve yet.

That's the issue again. Approaching things like this in a simplistic way does NOT work.

Delurking to thank you all for the education. Everything you write is thought provoking and interesting, if a bit depressing.

I have a question. I regard myself as an EU citizen. I didn't chose to lose that. Is there a legal case to be made for me retaining that somehow? I seem to remember that being floated as an option a while ago.

Back to lurking.

Peregrina I truly fail to see the point about Ireland and Germany. I have sen many good and sensible points on this thread but I don't get that one. How does East and West Germany voluntarily choosing to re-unify have any bearing on Northern Ireland.

Red Peppers I think giving subsidies for nurseries would be a fantastic idea. I also wouldn't have scrapped child benefit for 3rd children either (unless in cases of rape ffs).