Westministenders: No Brexit is Better than a Bad Brexit

[RedToothBrush]

Happy Anniversary!!!

These Threads are officially 1 year old today.

I don't know who started the very first thread, but it was about how Cameron quitting had handed the Boris a poison chalice because he had to be the one to trigger a50 as Cameron walked away without having done it.

Of course Boris didn't become PM, and we found out that triggering a50 and Brexit were even more complex than even the majority of the most informed thought it would be.

A year on we have a minority government, a zombie prime minister, a government who don't really know what the concept of democracy, millions of EU citizens (who include British nationals) who face an uncertain future, the fear of the cliff edge, a huge scandal over inequality and Jeremy Corbyn appearing on the Pyramid Stage at Glastonbury within the hour.

That would be great Bruja. I never registered their births with the consulate or anything, only did spanish birth registry and applied for a UK passport. At the moment they both have UK passports and nothing else, but I'll get them Spanish ones this year as they are a lot cheaper.

Theresa May's Government at risk of collapse within two years, warns Lord Heseltine
'This is a deeply divided country and singling out one part of it in order to give a semblance of short term stability is just one more of the prices we're paying for the consequences of Brexit
'www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-minority-government-collapse-michael-heseltine-tory-hung-parliament-dup-deal-a7808966.html

Lord Heseltine previously warned the electoral base is dying off at a rate of 2 per cent per year and called for a new party leader
I wonder how CCHQ are factoring this into their plans, if they have any.

Thanks for the explanations. Good that there's a loophole re the dual Spanish/British nationality.

So many people are warning about the damage that will be caused by Brexit - but no one in Government appears to be listening.

Yes, get them passports and ID cards and renew them when they expire. I think that would be enough.

Re your status, I don't think the current Spanish government (or PSOE or Ciudadanos, etc.) will be 'nasty' re UK nationals residing in Spain.

I think they will just try everybody to register. The figures of UK nationals in Spain are unrealistic, as most of them do not register as residents in Spain. They just have a NIE because it's needed for property matters and utilities, banking, etc.. The real figure could be nearly three times the official one. I am originally from Valencia/Alicante so I know many cases of 'unofficial' residents. My parents' neighbours at the summer apartment have been living there for 20 years but they 'live' in Kent!

When [Heseltine] was asked about Theresa May's claim the deal with the DUP would provide "certainty" during Brexit negotiations, the former deputy to John Major said she was wrong.

Yes, well, May sensed that the country was coming together behind her, it was just Parliament holding her back. She couldn't have been more wrong. Does she get anything right? The Hillsborough Enquiry is about the only thing which comes to mind.

@YvetteCooperMP

Contrary to PM reply to me &@hilarybennmp Gov doc means EU citizens whose kids go abroad to Uni will have to pass income test if they return

It's unbelievable what they are proposing. Fortunately Barnier thinks so too. She's got months, if that, D 2 brains Davis will do worse, and we'll be in an election in the autumn again. I wonder if DUP still get their £1b for a few months support?

La very good point. Many pensioners use a UK address and eventually a lot do return home when frail. Post Brexit if they do register in Spain and this information is shared with the UK they won't be able to access msny elrments of the UK welfare state (NHS benefits etc) if if/when they return.

I've been travelling all day so I haven't been able to follow this in the detail I'd like. Does anyone have any idea if this proposal will apply to all EU nationals, including pensioners such as my dad who has been here since the 60s? It's madness - the EU wouldn't even begin to consider it. Why even suggest this truly cynical stitch-up?

No matter what Theresa May does she always picks the least popular--do you think she's playing pointless?

I take it that this is just May's opening gambit. Since Davis was going to have the 'row of the summer' and capitulated in one morning, who is to say that May won't do likewise? This could just be for the consumption of her Eurosceptic wing, and not what eventually comes about (fingers crossed.)

gottobreak I think the official figures of UK "expats" in the EU are laughable. Only in the Costa Blanca there are more than the figure for the whole of Spain! There are areas in the Marinas, Alta and Baixa, and in Torrevieja-Orihuela Costa where there are more UK 'residents' than Spanish 'natives'. Schools with one Spanish child per class, o no Spanish children at all in a year! A friend of mine is a GP in one of these areas and only 10-12% of their patients are Spanish! In these cases a parent registers but the other does not. A grandparent registers but the other does not...

Ex pats are not an issue for most people. Sorry if that offends, but that is the reality. They chose to go and live elsewhere mostly in sunny climes, and I am referring to those who have retired there, not those who are working abroad. Although both cohorts have every right to do so. But things look dodgy in the face of Brexit don't they.

But anyway. It will be an interesting debate. Should EU in UK have more rights than UK in UK. Think about it.

She's disgusting. Pure hate filled evil bitch. Devoid of any kind of moral compass. Utterly repellent. Despicable track record in government. Makes me ashamed to be British.

And yes, I can now foresee civil unrest over the coming months.

I'm surprised there isn't a bit of unrest now. She probably thinks she's got away with it.

Arconic, the American firm who made all the panels on our towers is now suspending sales for towers. Bit late now. And the fire service says Camden council needs 1000 firedoors to make their towers safe. Apparently the council in making cuts thought they weren't necessary. I hope everyone who received the £100 council tax rebate (the people in the higher bracket) really enjoyed it because it was at the expense of fire precautions for the poor living in the tower blocks in your constituency.

Well it is a Tory council after all, what can you expect.

lalalegs - out of interest (I'm still learning my freedom of Movement history), how did you dad come here in the 1960s? Presumably it was on a work permit with limited rights initially, then as the borders gradually came down he found he was able to stay easily?

there are more UK 'residents' than Spanish
I think that's the point. LaBrujaPiruja the EU already exists by popular consent. A bit like the US constitution, it's an aspiration that's been made real by how people have lived it. The little alt right cabal can threaten and promote racist policies, but they can't take away an a commitment to an internationalist ideal, because people love living it.

No, Bruja I agree there's been no hint that the Spanish government would make things difficult and I'm already registered as a permanent resident here and keep my padrón up to date as I often need one for official things. It's just the worry that, even without Spain making things difficult, my status will change legally if I'm no longer European and that will involve a lot of paperwork, hence the idea of taking Spanish nationality (I put the papers in in Jan), it's just it takes years to to come through, I am unlikely to get it before the cliff edge. In fact I discovered recently I am entitled to an Irish passport, which is much faster, so I'm doing that too, and may do it for the kids but it's a lot more expensive for them as they'd have to register on the Foreign Births Register first.

Trump has won a victory on his travel ban. The world gets worse and worse.

But why should EU citizens in the UK be stripped of rights that UK citizens gave up? The UK wanted Brexit (well, some of them) you coudl argue and has volunteered to lose those rights, why should EU nationals lose them too?

Divided,

TM has obviously annoyed you a lot.

I think TM has been very quiet of late. She also did not sign the DUP agreement either, maybe in case she is ousted, and the deal still has to go ahead without her or something. (how discreet were those discussions with DUP, no one heard a thing until today). Well I didn't!

I think they know things are not looking good, but in typical fashion will forge ahead anyhow. Even if that means disaster for everyone, my word is my bond and Brexit means Brexit. Shit talk. But anyway.

Labour is waiting in the long grass. Rightly so. Let the Tories fall on their swords. But a week is a long time in politics. As we have seen with DUP.

The concern now is Northern Ireland. Do not expect Sinn Fein to sit back and accept UK interference with the GFA i.e. non interference in the Stormont Assembly by backing the DUP. That may invoke the ire of the Nationalists as it contradicts the GFA.

The marching season approaches aswell. Let us hope it will be peaceful. There is a very fragile peace at the moment I think. Very fragile. Shame on May if anything kicks off.