Westminstenders: The Negotiations Continue - The DUP ones

[RedToothBrush]

Tomorrow is the Queen’s Speech. In honour of that the start of this thread is written in its honour:

….
Immigration is bad. Except for that good immigration.
….
….
Brexit means Brexit
….
Pilot scheme.
....
….
….
Money for –the DUP-- NI
….
….
Brexit means Brexit
….
The Internet is Bad. Newspapers are good.
….
Brexit means Brexit.
….
….
….
Britain wave your flag.
….
….
….

(The Queen’s turns over the page to read the back of the A4 sheet, only to find it blank)

Given the UK already happily splits families up, it doesn't bode well

The policy was set up and lead in a very single minded way by a hardcore at the Home Office. Who was that who did that again? I forget.

What is the EU position on ....

Laura Kuenssberg‏*@bbclaurak*

Can they avoid the car crash over the court ?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40387897
Ideas on the table for citizens' rights

Kuenssberg referring to this as a 'car crash' already.

average @Conservative voter is getting older and older at a faster rate than the U.K population is ageing

Is this because being a Tory sucks the life force out of people?

There are 1.2 million British expats in the EU. The vast majority poddibky up to 700k in Spain. Figures are difficult as many are not 'official but extrapolation from ONS figures 2/3 are over 50 with well over 1/3 over 65

So we welcome back 235k plus pensioners who are probably priced out of the housing market (MIL was when she came back recently)

Back into the housing stock. Back into the NHS

And the same year we send back young tax paying EU citizens. Makes complete sense

The EU position is that they want things to remain EXACTLY the same. No second class treatment for any EU citizen here (this is why the cut off thing doesn't work because of people in the same family ending up with different rights which might include things like rights to health). They want to make sure citizens are protected by law - and don't trust the UK not to change their position in the future - so want it overseen from outside the UK.

At the moment the UK are over simplifying the issue and going 'its a generous deal' when they have not covered many of the more complex aspects of the issue.

I'm probably being a bit thick, but how does it compare to what the EU wants?

Sorry, X-posted.

Oh and there is particular concerns over Irish border issues and EU citizens.

Ok, so what is the problem from the UK side with things staying the same? Thanks for the explanation.

I'm probably being a bit thick, but how does it compare to what the EU wants?

The UK proposal you mean ?

Irrespective of the small print, it's unacceptable as it doesn't provide the final arbiter to be the ECJ (which the EU is offering as the final arbiter of any offer they make).

Sadly, the UKs rapidlly dwindling stock (various unlawful expulsions by the Home Office, for a start) means that the EU simply cannot trust any UK government - this or any subsequent ones - to actually honour any agreement.

Maybe people will hear about the Chagas islanders a bit more now ...

I wouldn't trust may as far as I could throw the delusional bitch

Ok, so what is the problem from the UK side with things staying the same?
Because they're forrin. Or went to forrin countries.

The EU wants all expats, whether E27 or UK, to retain all the rights they have now within the EU,
without any minimum stay required up to the date of Brexit

So:
+rights to work & live within EU, to bring in spouse and DC,
+rights to unemployment pay, health service etc to be same as a native up to state retirement age, then healthcare to be fully paid (to the state system) by the govt of the citizen.

• rights to state and employment pensions on same terms as a native +no 5-year minimum stay, all rights guaranteed with appeal to ECJ

The EU wants this to apply to any citizen who has ever been an expat in the past, but isn't now, e.g. someone who returned home 30 years ago !
I'm pretty sure that is just a negotiating ploy, so they can drop it and let the UK claim a "victory"

Oh and there is particular concerns over Irish border issues and EU citizens.

Is there a danger that any deal will see Irish citizens emerging with more rights than any other EU citizens ? Again, I can't see the EU agreeing to anything which effectively discriminates between EU citizens (and I am aware that the pre EU UK/RoI relationship is unique).

On upside of all this, is that it has shut a few of the "how difficult can it be ?" Leavers up. Although it could just be me, and the company I keep, but there's a lot less chatter from Leavers now. Especially if they complain of being "bored of Brexit". As I cheerfully remind them, they were told that Brexit would dominate for years, so they'd better get used to it.

I'm getting worried for my 71year old mum
She has been here since she was 18 and worked and paid tax until she was 60
If she is told to leave it will kill her
But I suppose leavers don't care
She was good enough to wipe arses in nursing homes for £2.50 an hour, they took tax and NI happily enough
Now she is surplus to requirements???
Jesus

Aren't EU citizens entitled to vote in local elections ?

May wants to deuce rights of EU citizens to those of non-EU
e.g. wrt being allowed to bring over spouse

ECJ is required because Tory govts have a history of doing things which are illegal, under either UK or international law, then retrospectively changing UK law to try to make their actions legal (still sometimes illegal)

Also, once someone has been e.g. deported, the long process to get justice and overturn the decision can take so long, with the govt appealing every decision, that most people run out of money / give up / or die of old age first.

May wants to reduce rights

Is there a danger that any deal will see Irish citizens emerging with more rights than any other EU citizens ?
In some respects they always have wrt to CTA and voting in general elections (as a minimum off the top of my head). What TM is proposing would mean either the Irish have far more rights than other eu citizens or that the CTA will be ripped up. Either way could be massive implications for NI.

OK, I see. Maybe TM is concerned about the many people who have come in the last year, or will do so now, if there isn't the five year rule thing. Perhaps.

We haven't hit 'Peak Tory' yet as far as I can see.

If we have no farmer labourers and we have lots of unemployed people then wait until they start putting one and one together and coming up with 'a solution'.

If benefits claimants don't take these jobs they can't travel to they loose benefits. They won't of course think its their responsibility to provide transport either.

So you will end up with workers split up from families. Or starving.

Can't see it happening?

Really? Can't you?

Or that masses may arrive in the run up to the Brexit date...

The UK position about the ECJ is just not acceptable. They say EU citizens post Brexit will be overseen by 'highly respected British Courts'. To my mind this is a bit like being accused of a crime and then being told that your lawyer is the same guy who's acting for the prosecution, and that he's having lunch with the judge AND the jury right now.

But I suppose leavers don't care

Probably hasn't even crossed their minds.