Westminstenders: The Negotiations Continue - The DUP ones

[RedToothBrush]

Tomorrow is the Queen’s Speech. In honour of that the start of this thread is written in its honour:

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Immigration is bad. Except for that good immigration.
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Brexit means Brexit
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Pilot scheme.
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Money for –the DUP-- NI
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Brexit means Brexit
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The Internet is Bad. Newspapers are good.
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Brexit means Brexit.
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Britain wave your flag.
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(The Queen’s turns over the page to read the back of the A4 sheet, only to find it blank)

Gosh. I've never seen anything like this before.
www.theguardian.com/music/2017/jun/24/jeremy-corbyn-calls-for-unity-in-glastonbury-speech
Funny old business this 'populism'. He seems to be popular. I think labour would be doing quite well with anyone with this manifesto.

Finally caught up with the Brexit means Brexit documentary on bbc2 as recommended by red. Fascinating

Mps tend to be good talkers. It made them all seem more human, and most of them seemed nicer than they usually come across, but the Christopher bridgeman chap with his desire for 'proper' ie hard Brexit and constant talk of remoaners was hard to take. Nigel f as usual gave a breathtaking demonstration of just what a poisonous personality he really is.

I do think we are fooling ourselves if we think it won't happen. Having resorted to the dictator's tool of a referendum, we have blasted off not just a toe but both our legs. I am sure that the 27 would have us back- if we signed up to the euro. I would happily do that but I am certain there is no wish for that in the country.

I am sure that the 27 would have us back

We haven't left yet, remember. But we will have to do what a majority of the Parliamentary Labour Party are now doing - eat large servings of humble pie.

Someone said up-thread that a Soft Brexit leading to the EEA would have all the disadvantages and none of the advantages of EU membership.

I don't think that is entirely correct. According to the EEA website

"The EEA binding provisions do not concern:

- the common agricultural policy and the common fisheries policy      - the customs union;
- the common trade policy;

• the common foreign and security policy; - the field of justice and home affairs (although all the EFTA countries are part of the Schengen area); or
• the economic and monetary union (EMU) "

If the Leave vote was really about sovreignity (and not immigration), then this wouldn't be such a bad compromise.

If time runs out and the PM, whoever it then is, decided on Remain to avoid a cliff edge, then I would be astonished if the E27 imposed conditions like the Euro.

They would much prefer we stayed, because although the damage to the E27 would be much less than to the UK, it is not negligible either.
So, any negotiator, even DD, should be able to ensure we even keep our current opt-outs, i.e. Remain would just be status quo

The only condition the E27 might insist on, is that Remain must be for a minimum period, probably at least 10 years - some at Brussels are concerned that otherwise the UK might mess about calling and revoking A50 repeatedly, to try to get a better deal.

If the UK actually Brexits in March 2019 and then applies to rejoin the EU, that would be totally different:
it would be a new application, with all previous optouts wiped out

However, even then, the UK economy is unlikely to satisfy conditions for us to join the Euro - e.g. annual deficit too high - so joining the Euro would be postponed.
Anyway, it now seems that new members can choose to join the Euro when they think the time is right, which may be never !

Nigel f as usual gave a breathtaking demonstration of just what a poisonous personality he really is.

Did you see the clip of him signing photos of himself? People must write in requesting that idiots autograph!

Maybe he just sends them out anyway. 'You're a cancer on the body politic' - 'Have a signed photo of me' - it's the sort of rather unpleasant joke he would like. Absolutely loved his dismissal of the racist abuse Gina Miller has received because the abuse of him being white and public-school educated was apparently just as bad and is never reported on the Beeb. Don't know how they'd have time to fit it a report on that between his appearances on Newsnight tbh.

Did anything happen with the dup in the end?

"Poisonous toad" fits him exactly

Eeeee,

Not that I know of anyway. So no Government, a weak Pm, the vultures circling, and yet PM and her entourage can start negotiations without a Government. Strange.... or maybe not I dunno.

Anyway, DUP are adamant that they want an open border with ROI. So that should be interesting in the context of a hard Brexit, going forward.

The ROI is stuck between a rock and a hard place. It is hard not to feel they are pawns. They need UK for trade, lots of Irish work there, it is like another province of Ireland really things are that close. And yet ROI is and will be EU. What do they do? Seems the EU is very cognisant of this and have put the Border issue high on the agenda.

There is a Government - Theresa May has formed a minority one, which she is perfectly entitled to do. Unless you meant the devolved NI Govt.

The test will come when legislation is voted on. Harold Wilson formed a minority government in 1974 when Ted Heath lost his unnecessary election. He then called another election later in the year, and gained a majority of three, and the Government staggered on on a knife edge. HW was however, considerably more politically astute than TM - he had a reputation for being crafty, but it's probably needed in politics.

As for May - I remember when she first pitched for the Leadership - it wasn't about what she hoped to achieve but all about slagging off Boris Johnson, who then made her look stupid by not standing. She then made herself look even more silly by appointing him as Foreign Secretary - heaven knows why. She is just the wrong person for now, but the field is particularly thin.

Without the DUP the minority Government will not last past the first vote in the Commons I reckon.

DUP are the key to May's survival. But they have a big shopping list. Where are they?

TM should just go back to Sonning and get a life. Why do people put themselves on the rack like this. If you gambled and lost, go away and resign. Power is some drug isn't it.

If she did though the pool of Cons Leaders is very poor.

I don't wish to be unkind to Sonning, but can a person get a life there?

I don't wish to be unkind to Sonning, but can a person get a life there

Meanwhile David Davis STILL thinks that the German carmakers are going to force the EU to give us a good deal.

twitter.com/IanDunt/status/878952247006289920

Any psychologists among you who know the technical term for continuing to believe something in the face of all the contrary evidence? Deluded?

Cognitive dissonance - ignoring all the evidence and continuing to think your beliefs are correct.

Latest news DUP are getting one billion pounds to reach agreement. Scotland and Wales will not be happy.

"Cognitive dissonance - ignoring all the evidence and continuing to think your beliefs are correct."

I prefer "Arse".

So just on a tangent here....

Wondering what people who voted conservative feel about the deal struck with the DUP and the 1 billion going to Northern Ireland? That wasn't in the manifesto.
Given that May called the election to get a mandate on Brexit, then that didn't happen, hence DUP....is it fair to assume that the deal has been struck for, amongst other things, to get Brexit legislation through parliament. Therefore the 1 billion is also to secure a mandate for Brexit. So how do leave voters feel about that?

I could be wrong but I'm imagining that some might be right pissed off about it