Westminstenders: The Negotiations Continue - The DUP ones

[RedToothBrush]

Tomorrow is the Queen’s Speech. In honour of that the start of this thread is written in its honour:

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Immigration is bad. Except for that good immigration.
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Brexit means Brexit
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Pilot scheme.
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Money for –the DUP-- NI
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Brexit means Brexit
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The Internet is Bad. Newspapers are good.
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Brexit means Brexit.
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Britain wave your flag.
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(The Queen’s turns over the page to read the back of the A4 sheet, only to find it blank)

How about rescind the a50 and put brexit down to a Britain having a 'moment of madness'. I'm awed by the compassion with which the EU27 are treating the new sick man of europe.

They just remember the UK in the 1970s before we joined the EEC.

And even if they could bring the UK back to the 1970s, they can't bring back the rest of the world too

i.e. the 180 or so countries that are now all in trade blocks (exceptions being N Korea and ca. 5 others)

David Allen Green‏**@davidallengreen**
Negotiations, week one

UK
- capitulates on sequencing
- makes weak first offer on citizenship
- turning on ECJ jurisdiction

EU stands firm

he also says this:

David Allen Green‏**@davidallengreen**
No: the prime minister beginning to reverse on ECJ jurisdiction will not interrupt my Twitter break.

No.

Oh, ok then...

...ha ha ha ha.

He also points out Brexit is the first thing to really be carried out online in the legal world.

www.legalcheek.com/2017/06/brexit-and-the-online-world/
Brexit and the online world

Faisal Islam‏*@faisalislam*

Asked PM what her mandate for leaving single market/customs union was after not winning manifesto majority. replied 80% voters backed Brexit

Interesting response there.

Bregrets, I've had a few, but then again ...

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-why-i-regret-voting-to-leave-the-european-union-and-now-want-the-uk-to-remain-a3571276.html

A Brexit voter has told how she regrets her decision to vote leave exactly one year on from the referendum.

Primary school teacher Denise Huk, from Essex, said she regrets her choice because she objects to Theresa May’s plan for hard Brexit.

She also said she still believes she was deceived by the Brexit campaign in the run-up to the vote on June 23 last year.

Ms Huk says she is worried about the future of the UK as it negotiates its way out of the EU.

(contd)

I bet Poland said nothing of the sort to TM. She is the queen of making it up as you go along? Deal with DUP your majesty? Oh, yes, we always had that as a plan B. Totally anticipated and planned.

Technically the PM doesn't have to be an MP, though passing legislation would be much harder if we had an actual First Lord of the Treasury

Give John Major another shot at it? Make Norman Tebbitt out his money where his mouth is and sort out Brexit? Really upset the NI Apple cart and ask David Trimble to do the job?

Asked PM what her mandate for leaving single market/customs union was after not winning manifesto majority. replied 80% voters backed Brexit

It's become the line to take. I've seen it on Twittter a lot and it was used by Peter Oborne on QT last night.

I deeply resent my vote being seen as a vote for hard Brexit or Brexit at all. It wasn't, so how do we stop this becoming the equivalent of 'Labour trashed the economy in 2008'.

I'm not hopeful of any clarity from Labour Party.

I deeply resent my vote being seen as a vote for hard Brexit

We need apply a bit of political judo here then :

OK, Mrs May, your entire existence is now predicated upon delivering a hard Brexit. If you can't do that you're out

Because with each passing hour - let alone week - it's becoming painfully clear that the UKs position is EU deal, or no deal. Whatever the UK wants is an irrelevance because it's in no position to demand anything.

There are a myriad of ways to fail on the road ahead. Almost an embarrassment of them. A veritable cornucopia. Too many to even hazard a educated guess at which one will be the fatal wound.

I'm guessing it will be a pincer movement of ECJ/ECHR that the rabid Brexiteers will choke on. Because any deal which leaves the UK appearing to be subservient to any foreign court (we'll ignore the fact that our treaty obligations have always done that) can never be spun as "taking back control".

May really has got something wrong with her when it comes to thinking about migration. I don't know whether it's her little Englander 1950s culture or HO conditioning, but her nasty, mean mindedness just seeps out of every policy statement/proposal she makes.

I did think she should stay and get more unpopular, giving the Tories less chance to win any election in the foreseeable future. Now, I just hope she goes quickly.

PM ... replied 80% voters backed Brexit

I know politicians like tricks like this but I think this is a very foolish line in the present circumstances. It's a continuation of IndyRef, the Brexit Referendum, and the GE: "we're telling you what's good for you, we're telling you what you want, you'll do as we say, right?". It very nearly went wrong in the first and failed catastrophically in the latter two.

It also led to Theresa May acting as though she was working on behalf of 52% of the people (or 37.5% of the population depending on how you want to view it) and telling the rest that they didn't matter.

This really isn't the time to be telling the electorate what it's thinking when it's untrue.

LH, I like your thinking and hope you are right but my hope is fading fast.

Sorry, what did the "80% backed brexit" mean. I'm confused.

(not in UK so I might have missed something!).

Sorry, what did the "80% backed brexit" mean. I'm confused.

Because the Labour partys official policy was to continue with Brexit (the people have spoken) then it's become a sleight-of-hand for Leavers to claim that 80% of the electorate (apprx 40% Tory, 40% Labour) voted "for Brexit".

However, as my local MP will find out, if she tries to get re-elected on a Brexit platform, my vote was tactically anti-Tory (job done ???) to give breathing space for an A50 reversal (or whatever is needed).

Soda Leaving the EU was in both Tory and Labour manifestos

Irony is neither party discussed Brexit at all. Labour's campaign was 'For the Many not the few' anti austerity. Tories was a bunch of nonsense about 'strong and stable' lol

Sorry, what did the "80% backed brexit" mean. I'm confused.

She means that 80% voted for parties with a pro-brexit manifesto.

But this is an interpretation steeped in bad faith. Two thirds of 2015 Labour voters voted to remain. I don't know what the proportion was this time, but given that the increased labour vote was at least partly on the back of a high turnout among younger voters (a remain voting demographic) it is probably fair to say that over two thirds of Labour voters are Remainers. In addition, about a third of 2015 Tory voters are remainers. Using the GE as a proxy for a "brexit mandate" is inappropriate.

Like others I am enjoying Osborne's revenge, but we should never forget that Osborne has a large share of the responsibility for this fiasco.

Thank you all for the 80% explanation.

I was following the GE closely from afar, and do not recall Brexit being mentioned much at all.

I agree the immigration policy issues will be tricky to resolve but I am confident some simple principles can be established. The crux, as you rightly say Lurking, is whether the EU negotiators can have faith that they will be applied appropriately when the inevitable unusual case crops up

It seems obvious that this is why the EU intend the ECJ to have jurisdiction. The potential for bad faith from national governments (not just the UK) is obvious. As a Briton abroad, the EU's proposal is obviously advantageous for me and others in my situation, because it protects me from future national legislation that might have retrospective impacts, and because it appears to open the door to maintaining my freedom of movement between EU countries (because under the EU proposal I would retain all my existing rights).

"Not my recollection" sounds to me like the words of someone who is used to manipulation, to their views and memories coming to be the accepted truth whether or not they actually happened that way.

soda you are very lucky. Wish I watching from afar

Still have daydreams that the cities are areas that voted remain could stay in the EU. The leavers could use their blue passports to visit us...

Deal or No Deal could well back fire as a strategy though.

DH has a friend, liberal tory remainer aged 48.

Still voted Tory. Now gone to being a leaver because he doesn't like how the EU are acting by being all tough.

Not that he'll have got pass soundbites fed to him by the British Press.

I know his father is a rampant Brexiteer who got his 15 year old grandson to be a theoretical leaver.

This guy is a nice intelligent guy, but I might strangle him if I end up in conversation with him about this, as he's clueless about the implications of Brexit.

A No Deal situation will end up with lots of law suits flying about, both here and abroad over citizen rights primarily. And the repatriation of lots of elderly. I wonder what happens if they are unable to sell their homes? Do they have to get rehomed by the council? Will we have to deport people to find space to do this? Or will EU citizens here, prove to be too valuable to deport afterall.

80% backed brexit, means bugger all. Its a falsehood that has been constructed by Brexiteers over the result of the general election because both Labour and Conservative Manifestos were pro-Brexit. So because 80% of people voted Con or Lab they now support Brexit.

This is DESPITE analysis of why people voted Con or Lab showing that whilst the most important reason for voting conservative was Brexit, it also should that Brexit was quite a way down the list for Labour voters.

What they are trying to do, is frame the debate to suggest they have a mandate. Like how they said that 48 - 52 was 'decisive' which was far from the case (with leaving Brexiteers on record as saying a similar result the other way would be unfinished business).

Basically its a political construct to try and drive debate and subsequent actions in a particular way. For this reason it should be ignored (and not even debunked in a direct rebuttal) as much as possible, and instead focus on how a vote for Labour was about a rejection of the mandate that May was seeking for her vision for Britain. May's vision includes Brexit but also other things, many of which are highly relevant to on going debates - and the brexit debate.

Still voted Tory. Now gone to being a leaver because he doesn't like how the EU are acting by being all tough.

The problem is, when you are 27 countries, with 6 times the population of the UK, it's impossible not to "act tough".

To my mind, the only country in recent history that has gone down that route is Cuba versus the USA.

And the repatriation of lots of elderly

wasn't a PP worried about that ? Given the UK already happily splits families up, it doesn't bode well

James Kanagasooriam‏*@JamesKanag*
The average @Conservative voter is getting older and older at a faster rate than the U.K population is ageing. This should concern the party

What is the EU on British ex pats living in the EU (post Brexit) anyone know?

Apart from ECJ involvement is it different to May's proposal for EU in UK?

I've had a quick look but it's all about UK proposal today.