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Brexit
Original poster

Petition to rescind Article 50

164 replies

Etaina · 19/06/2017 14:26

Just got an email from Avaaz with a link to a petition:

secure.avaaz.org/campaign/en/no_deal_no_brexit_loc/?cNWBamb

"The government called an election to get a massive mandate for hard Brexit, but instead, it lost its majority. Now, as the French and German governments have confirmed that the UK can reverse Article 50, and it becomes clear that a ‘no deal’ Brexit would have devastating consequences for Britain, we call on you to commit to rescinding Article 50 if we fail to reach a deal with Europe."

I know a lot of people, including DF, who voted for Brexit but now regret that decision. Even the most positive amongst them say that they wish we could just stop the madness now.

OP posts:
GhostofFrankGrimes · 20/06/2017 15:14

Price worth paying apparently Hmm

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 20/06/2017 15:39

For our richer and betters no doubt. Angry

GhostofFrankGrimes · 20/06/2017 15:43

Yep so much for Brexit being an anti establishment vote.

Figmentofmyimagination · 20/06/2017 16:43

I am caught between thinking we can't turn back and being disbelieving that the government and the general public would really be stupid enough to do this.

This is exactly how I feel. I can't really believe they would go through with something so irredeemably stupid.

Who remembers Barry Gardiner on Question Time coming right out with it, sitting next to David Davis, who did not disagree: "We are leaving the EU for political, not economic reasons". WTF.

It's about the chronic mismanagement by our esteemed Conservative leaders of political power - not just over the past 24 months, directly in relation to the referendum, but ever since they launched their austerity response in 2010.

Clalpolly · 20/06/2017 16:44

We are that stupid.

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 20/06/2017 17:25

Clal well some of us. I'm refusing to be part of the 'we' thats doing this.

I was never part of this. I cast my vote to remain. It's a bit like having a shit government you voted against . Oh yes we have that too Confused

Clalpolly · 20/06/2017 17:55

Didn't vote for this government. Voted Remain. I am not other from the rest of the UK. We are that stupid.

quencher · 20/06/2017 18:28

We are that stupid.
You would have to know you are stupid to see it. If you can't, then no, they won't believe it's stupid.

But, you also, have the law of democratic rights that this country prides it self on and pushes it around the world. You can't just say we put it aside because one group who thinks of themselves as better human thinkers agree with. The problem is, even those who thought they were better and cleverer used protest votes. It means stupidity can be found on all corners regardless of cleverness and astuteness. Wrong judgments can happen and there are people who will pay them.

Original poster
Etaina · 20/06/2017 19:01

I don't think we should be labelling people as stupid for voting one way or another. It isn't helpful and it isn't fair.

The protest voters I know voted the way they did because they had seen the way austerity was affecting the poorest members of our society. Those I know who were most committed to leaving are all highly intelligent people who genuinely believed that Brexit would be painful at first but, ultimately, better for the country. They thought amongst other things that we'd be able to trade freely with the rest of the world. Now we can't even make trade deals with Europe and certainly can't begin to discuss trade deals with any country until we are no longer members. Leavers were lied to and feel justifiably angry about it.

I live in an area with an older population that voted with a large majority to leave. The leavers I've spoken to based their decision on careful thought and consideration for the next generation. Now they are all telling me, without exception, that they would not vote the same way again. My area was also Tory until the recent GE.

I think anything is possible really given what's been happening in the last year, and that includes rescinding Art 50 or a second ref. We don't even really know who will be PM in the coming weeks. Seems that the DUP deal isn't agreed yet and that there'll be a legal challenge even if they do offer their support to the Tories.

OP posts:
Clalpolly · 20/06/2017 19:23

"Now we can't even make trade deals with Europe and certainly can't begin to discuss trade deals with any country until we are no longer members. Leavers were lied to and feel justifiably angry about it."

I think this was clear to anyone who wanted to see it. The problem is that too many people didn't want to see it.

Clalpolly · 20/06/2017 19:31

By appearing elitist and superior we Remain voters alienated many of the people that we might have brought onside. Think this makes us pretty stoopid. And acting like me can scrub it all out cos we don't like it is also elitist , superior and stoopid.

Original poster
Etaina · 20/06/2017 19:35

I don't think it was clear to anyone who wanted to see it. I'm not even sure the government quite understood that they couldn't negotiate with individual EU countries either before leaving or after The EU had to keep reminding us that we would only be able to negotiate with the EU as a whole.

OP posts:
Clalpolly · 20/06/2017 19:36

Of course the Leave campaign knew. Of course the government knew.

Original poster
Etaina · 20/06/2017 19:42

Im not talking about remainers 'scrubbing it all out', I'm talking about the leavers who, having witnessed the turmoil in the last 12 months and realising that they've been lied to, wanting to scrub it all out.

OP posts:
Original poster
Etaina · 20/06/2017 19:45

I'm not convinced Clal. Maybe they knew it wouldn't normally be allowed but they also seemed to believe that the EU would be so desperate to keep trading with us that we could get away with just about anything.

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Clalpolly · 20/06/2017 19:47

It's great that you still care about trying to fight for this. It really is.
At the moment, I find it hard to see the point.

surferjet · 20/06/2017 19:54

What turmoil?
I never hear anyone talking about Brexit in RL, not a single person. It's only on MN I hear anyone talking about the devastation Brexit will cause.
I'm sure It's an online pastime for remainers.
And wrt nurses etc no longer wanting to come here, who could blame them? 4 terror attacks within 5 months? Who'd want to come to this s**t hole.

InfiniteSheldon · 20/06/2017 19:55

I've not net a single Leave voter who regrets their vote but I've met plenty of Remain voters who've changed their minds. Where do you get your certainty that a second referendum would get a different result?

Original poster
Etaina · 20/06/2017 19:56

I think there is more of a point now than ever. Surely, even those who haven't had their doubts about leaving before must have some now that they realise just how weak we are. Didn't take long for Davis to cave in to the EU timetable yesterday. It's more apparent than ever that they've got us over a barrel.

Maybe all along the Tories thought that it wouldn't be too much of a gamble to offer a referendum because even if we did vote leave, once it became apparent what a bloody disaster it would be, we'd all be demanding a second referendum. A bad deal would result in a 2nd ref that would give a large majority for remain and put whole issue to bed once and for all.

OP posts:
Clalpolly · 20/06/2017 19:58

Op, don't assume that Remain would win a second referendum. It's really daft to put yourself in this echo chamber that won't listen to Leave.

Original poster
Etaina · 20/06/2017 20:00

Surfer almost everyone I know talks about it. Normally, it doesn't start off with Brexit, it's ususally whatever is going on in government or the news, but it then leads on to Brexit. It doesn't dominate conversations but I have asked leavers whether they regret the way they voted and they've answered me honestly.

Infinite I'm pleased to hear to that because I want to believe that this is what the majority of people genuinely want. Out of interest, why have the remainers changed their minds? Do any of them think that Brexit is a good idea?

OP posts:
Original poster
Etaina · 20/06/2017 20:09

I wish I could be where you are now Clal and just accept that we're heading for a hard Brexit and there's sod all we can do to change it. If the leavers were all still pleased with the way they voted and some remainers were positive about the future too (the economy has been OK since the ref after all), I'd be feeling a lot better about it all.

OP posts:
woman12345 · 20/06/2017 20:26

Petition is up to 108 000 Smile

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 20/06/2017 20:27

OP I think you should get your Irish passport if you haven't. It mighy make you feel more secure

Bolshybookworm · 20/06/2017 20:31

I don't think that people that voted leave are stupid- the members of the leave campaign lied (and are till lying) on a pretty grand scale. The remain campaign wasn't great, not helped vy Corbyn s rather wet effort and the fact that everyone hated Osborne and Cameron.

Now that we know that we are very unlikely to get the amazeballs trade deals the leavers promised, and that we will have to leave the single market, I thinks anyone still pushing for this is stupid frankly. It's not like we have a promise of some amazing future outside Europe, we currently have no idea what sort of relationship we will have with the eu and the rest of the world. It's an insane level of risk and if you think we should do it you're either very rich, have a second passport, or you completely lack any foresight.