Petition to rescind Article 50

[Etaina]

Just got an email from Avaaz with a link to a petition:

secure.avaaz.org/campaign/en/no_deal_no_brexit_loc/?cNWBamb

"The government called an election to get a massive mandate for hard Brexit, but instead, it lost its majority. Now, as the French and German governments have confirmed that the UK can reverse Article 50, and it becomes clear that a ‘no deal’ Brexit would have devastating consequences for Britain, we call on you to commit to rescinding Article 50 if we fail to reach a deal with Europe."

I know a lot of people, including DF, who voted for Brexit but now regret that decision. Even the most positive amongst them say that they wish we could just stop the madness now.

" what remainers have to realise is that the EU actually doesn't want us"

Really? Where have they said that?

I'm very confused at the idea that we can and will stop this.

Why do you think your wishes are more important than the actual result of the referendum? I really don't understand all these continued petitions for the minority vote to have their way instead.

The continued presence of the DUP and Sinn Fein in NI politics is a cancer on progress. All I can be grateful for is that they aren't killing each other. And anyone who gets in their way.

Can someone please talk me through the thinking that a vote for Labour, at the GE, is an vote against Brexit (which seems to be the logic in saying the election result shows no mandate for Brexit) what with the manifesto saying Labour will honour the referendum result, end freedom of movement and therefore leave the single market?

nb I'm not saying a Labour vote was a pro-Brexit vote (I think many voters believed the Brexit question to be settled) but I am struggling to see how it was an anti-Brexit vote.

Of course it wasn't an anti-Brexit vote for all the reasons you said.
We are just falling into the trap of being elitists who disregard majority opinion if we think we can stop this thing.
Continue to criticise Brexiteers; call them out for the almighty lies and nonsense they sold people. But we are leaving. It breaks my heart but we are leaving. Kidding ourselves that people who vote Leave didn't really mean it and we Remainers know better just undermines us.

But so many leave voters ARE saying that they didn't mean it or they've changed their minds now. Every single leaver that I've spoken to says that they'd vote differently now. Was listening to a discussion about this on LBC this morning and all but one of the callers who voted leave said that they would like a new referendum and would vote to remain.

As for just shutting up and going away, why should we? LBC presenter James O'Brien said that if he was on board a plane and the majority of passengers on a plane voted for a chimpanzee to replace the pilot, he wouldn't stop protesting and nor should we.

I believe that much of the support for Labour was from the remainers and the leavers who changed their minds. Kensington and Chelsea is a case in point.

The majority opinion Clalpolly is only a small majority and, arguably, not truly representative. If there was another referendum, you can bet that young people would vote this time and I firmly believe that there would be a fairly large majority in favour of remain. As has been said a million times before, if the result had been 52% for remain, the leavers wouldn't have just rolled over and accepted it.

if the result had been 52% for remain, the leavers wouldn't have just rolled over and accepted it

True.
But we wouldn't have been given a 2nd referendum, we'd have been told by remainers to 'accept democracy' - I'm sure you'll agree.

It should never have taken place without an agreement about what would be deemed to be a satisfactory point difference. I agree that remainers would have said to accept the democratic vote, but I wouldn't realistically have expected the leavers to do so.

I really think it's all these silly petitions that are making us look ridiculous - not the ref result itself.
We, the United Kingdom, who try & overthrow dictators so the 'people' can have democracy, we, who keep shoving 'British values' down immigrants throats, ( one of the top values being democracy ) are now trying to overturn a democratic process.
And you think it's leavers who are making us look a laughing stock?
If you took your head out of your arse for 5 minutes you'd understand.

Etaina How did your leave voter friends who now want to remain vote? Did they vote Green or LibDem? Those were the parties standing on not honouring the referendum outcome. What percentage of the vote did they get?

Ashcroft post election poll

lordashcroftpolls.com/2017/06/result-happen-post-vote-survey/

But so many leave voters ARE saying that they didn't mean it or they've changed their minds now. they should have thought about that before hand. Votes are very important and precious. They change lives for those who live in democratic systems that work well. If any one is to blame, they are the people to blame. If they change their minds that easily they will be able to change their minds again. I wouldn't trust them with my future.
They have been the group that annoyed me most especially the protest voters who didn't value their votes but under minded those who wanted out. Every vote counts and every time we vote we have to think about that. You cannot have protest vote for something that will change your lives for ever. If you don't know what to vote for, I would rather you had a spoilt vote to make a point.

As for just shutting up and going away, why should we? LBC presenter James O'Brien said that if he was on board a plane and the majority of passengers on a plane voted for a chimpanzee to replace the pilot, he wouldn't stop protesting and nor should we. Really! 
Am not even in support of leavers but this takes the biscuit. 
How is this related to brexit?

@surferjet said it better. Well done. If we can't go through with our democratic vote. We can't go around the world lecturing people on their democratic value.

"The majority opinion Clalpolly is only a small majority and, arguably, not truly representative. If there was another referendum, you can bet that young people would vote this time and I firmly believe that there would be a fairly large majority in favour of remain. "

A majority is a majority. If people didn't get if their arses and vote last time in the referendum then, tough shit. This isn't Britain's Got Talent. There's no new season.

If sainted Jeremy had got off his arse and done something then maybe we wouldn't be in this mess.

It's over.

Cross using data again to only prove your point. Try the Survation polls. The only one that predicted a hung parliament.

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-people-changed-minds-brexit-second-referendum-poll-finds-a7795591.html%3Famp

I'm guess this doesn't fit your narrative. Hence the ommision?

Those people I know who voted to leave all voted either Lib Dem or Labour in the election, but they were voting tactically to keep the Tories out. A few of the Labour voters have previously voted Conservative because they either fear a hard Brexit or don't want Brexit at all now.

A second referendum on the deal that is eventually agreed seems to me to be fair for everyone, including those who are in favour of Brexit at the moment. I just can't understand why anyone would object to that.

Exactly why object if you are confident you will get the same result

The way I see it Cameron allowed the ref to assuage the Brexiteers

Well now us moaning remainers need assauging. Looking at demographics alone with the increase of the youth vote in 2 years. The young would actually bother to vote and older leavers would no longer be with us it would be remain

That's before even telling people the facts and impact

That's why the Brexiteers on MN come out in rabid force about petitions referendums and marches. They are worried this won't go the way they want.

If by some miracle we get another referendum, great. But a) there is no guarantee you will get the result you want and b) you are very naive if you think there will be

mobile.twitter.com/Survation/status/876229965108445185/photo/1
I've just had a look at the Survation poll. Sorry, but I find the wording they used very slanted towards getting a result for staying in the single market. Bias by omission of other facts such as freedom to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the world etc.

How would that work (2nd referendum on the deal) if the EU don't want us to leave Etaina, wouldn't that encourage them to agree the worst possible deal for the UK?

Well Lindy if you are a pollster. Fair enough. However they are held up as a very reputable source. As I said the only one to get the GE right

If you are not a pollster then I would prefer to rely on the evidence of Survation

Thanks for that Clal

a) you don't know
b) you don't know

c) I also have Irish passport so can get the hell out of dodge when it all goes tits up. Am curious you don't care about those left behind. And if you haven't actually got yours yet I would apply very quickly.

Does the winning party in a general election adhere to every word in their manifesto and if not is this undemocratic?