Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/06/2017 21:03

As the dust begins to settle after the drama of a result no one really thought would happen though many hoped, we start to wonder what else will happen.

Initially it looked like the best possible result. The trouble is May has decided true to form to be a pain in the backside and not know when to quit. Her trade mark management style to crash forward in a straight through obstacles, taking everything that gets in her way in the process, rather than taking the more sensible and less hazardous route. She has had a nasty habit of come hurdling to an abrupt and painful messy end as she hits an inpenatrable brick wall of law or circumstance.

The idea that she can be moderated in any way is ridiculous, especially if Nick and Fiona survive.

We now have a situation with a minority government and a prime minister with a manifesto full of controversial proposals that will largely be consigned to the bin out of fear of defeat. Her ambitions over human rights are not in the manifesto so an embolden House of Lords will just throw it out without fear – because constitutionally the Salisbury convention only applies to majority governments. She has become a lame duck.

The trouble is that this is a parliament that needs to pass measures because of Brexit. May’s ability to deal with the Great Repeal Act in particular is going to be next to impossible. Certainly with the time already wasted.

May’s insistence that nothing has changed and its business as usual merely adds insult to injury and makes the whole situation worse. It sets her up to fail at some point, but that could well be after she has single handedly lead the country to economic and social disaster. Her lack of understanding of this just shows her up as the poor one trick politician without real leadership skills and vision. It marks her arrogance and lack of respect for those who are her bosses.

She could have acknowledged that the election result was a wholesale rejection of her vision for Brexit and reached out to other parties for a consensus over Brexit she decided to go rushing in bed with the hardline right DUP.

We now have a situation where her loose agreement with the DUP to prop up her government could be in breach of the Good Friday Agreement, further risking instability in that part of the union. It is not only fool hardy, its reckless. Not only that, without a formal agreement in the form of a coalition, such support means the she can not rely on the back up of the Salisbury Convention.

This is also done without irony after vilifying Corbyn for his association with terrorists. It shows a total disregard for the colleagues who the DUP regard as an ‘abomination’ for being gay, especially Ruth Davidson who basically saved her political neck. She really is a political prisoner to their whims and demands. This arrangement with the one that John Major avoided even when he struggled with a minority government because of the problems it would cause. Of course, if you were cynical you might well argue that May wants to break the GFA.

The rest of the party will cowardly let her lurch from crisis to crisis because the like the spine to rid themselves of the problem. Political crisis which involve NI are particularly difficult and particularly risky. May risks constitutional crisis there, with the House of Lords, over our WTO status, with Human Rights of EU and British nationals, a possible no confidence vote and with EU negotiations. That’s just the big ones we can forsee now. Yet she sees herself as the champion of stability in this midst of it all with a staggering lack of self-awareness or brazen disregard. Its like how the GOP tolerate Trump for their Christian agenda, the Hard Brexiteers will tolerate May to get Brexit through in any way they can; though this now opens it up to being even more chaotic unless the liberals stand up to the ever increasing suicide of it. The reality is that the chances of her being able to persuade both the liberal and right wings to agree to the same plan is slim.

The chances of the house of cards simply collapsing and us left with another election are huge.

There is hope. More than a landslide would have brought, but this path is fraught with pitfalls, it is difficult to see May doing anything but charging headlong over a cliff and missing the best way out of this mess. David Davis has admitted that there is now no longer a mandate for hard Brexit and we will need to stay in the Single Market and Customs Union and Greg Clark is summoning business to support the course. There are calls from Sarah Wollaston, Heidi Allen and Yvette Cooper for a cross party approach to key issues. This of course is the last thing that the Wing Nuts – and May - will allow willingly.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
33
SixInTheBed · 11/06/2017 14:34

Ends Kenny's tweet on the GFA aspect

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit
OlennasWimple · 11/06/2017 14:34

Dumbledore - I'm not sure what you wrote up thread is quite right about the Queen's Speech (but this is slightly obscure territory, so I'm prepared to be corrected!)

My understanding is:

  • government writes speech for the Queen to deliver
  • Queen reads out speech in Commons
  • Queen goes back to the palace
  • formal debate on QS in the Commons, during which the Leader of the Opposition has a good chunk of time to probe, question and belittle the proposals in the QS
  • amendments to the QS can be put forward
  • at the end of the debate there is a formal vote, which is usually purely symbolic and passes easily
  • the Lords debate the speech, but do not vote on it
  • if the QS is not voted through, this is in effect a motion of no confidence in the government and may be followed by a second motion of no confidence. If this is passed, a general election is triggered
  • the PM may resign at any time, but this does not automatically trigger a general election
  • if the PM does go to the Palace to tender her resignation, JC could subsequently go to the Palace to ask permission to form a (minority) government

I think what JC is saying is that they are preparing to cause trouble when the QS is delivered, and that they are ready to present an alternative QS - in other words, they would be ready to hit the ground running if May's government runs into oblivion in the coming weeks. It's also a neat rebuttal to the commentators who said that JC's Labour Party was too disorganised to manage itself never mind the country, and that JC himself was not ready to govern,

BiglyBadgers · 11/06/2017 14:36

Personally, I think we will have to wait a few days (weeks?) before we get a coherent message on Brexit from either of the parties after the election. The election result was so unexpected I think it's going to take a while for them to sort out what and how it changes things.

NancyWake · 11/06/2017 14:39

Well yes but that's what we all said last year and it didn't get more coherent... or more sensible.

NancyWake · 11/06/2017 14:41

But - I'm a pessimist - not counting on Labour chickens before they've hatched.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 14:43

Why do you think they never mentioned a coherent message about Brexit? Because it would upset the electorate or because they haven't got one?

What make you think it will change quickly?

OP posts:
Golondrina · 11/06/2017 14:43

Wow, that thread about general knowledge. No wonder the Tories win if that's the level of education and interest in the world.

BiglyBadgers · 11/06/2017 14:44

Clearly, I am feeling optimistic today Nancy. We can balance each other out Grin

Artisanjam · 11/06/2017 14:44

I think this is a time for people to contact their new MPs and make their position known. We shouldn't be staying quiet to see what will happen - the hard Brexit WhatsApp group certainly won't.

BiglyBadgers · 11/06/2017 14:48

To be honest red I think a bit of both. I think both parties were so worried about upsetting the brexiteers they have been afraid of saying anything that paints a less than rosy picture of brexit. This by necessity leaves them without a coherent plan, because there isn't one that provides the rainbow and unicorns the brexit supporters demanded. My hope is that Labour will now feel that an alternative view will not result in lynching and can talk about more sensibly about it.

As I said, I am feeling optimistic Grin

NancyWake · 11/06/2017 14:49

Because it would upset the electorate or because they haven't got one?

Both actually.

NancyWake · 11/06/2017 14:49

Snap! Wine

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 14:49

DUP plus rumour of Gove as Deputy PM.

That's a NI horror show right there.

OP posts:
BiglyBadgers · 11/06/2017 14:52

Great minds Nancy Grin

HashiAsLarry · 11/06/2017 14:55

Struggling to copy paste at mo but Faisal Islam has tweeted that the Irish Government's version of the call between Enda Kenny and TM seems to suggest Brokenshire will not be carrying on in post. Hope TM told him first.

DumbledoresApprentice · 11/06/2017 14:58

Olenna- it's a bit of a grey area in the Cabinet manual, I think. If TM loses a bite on a QS then there is a 14 day window in which either JC or TM could try to get the confidence of the House. TM could offer a second QS or try to win a vote of confidence, although that seems unlikely to me. If 14 days elapsed and neither of them has won a confidence vote or passed a Queen's Speech then an election is triggered. 14 days isn't long enough for the conservatives to put forward another leader realistically, although it's technically possible for an alternative conservative leader to try to win a confidence vote or QS too.

OlennasWimple · 11/06/2017 15:07

I feel very sorry for Cabinet Office folks right now - they must be scratching their heads about what is possibly the best advice on what can and cannot happen under different scenarios

I come back to the fact that TM was premature skipping along to the Palace on Friday. It's all just a complete mess.

Does anyone know when the QS has been scheduled for? If it has yet....

borntobequiet · 11/06/2017 15:08

Gove on the GFA again. This time in his own words.
www.cps.org.uk/files/reports/original/111220142628-thepriceofpeace2000MichaelGove.pdf

Right now, this person should be as far away from Government as possible.

woman12345 · 11/06/2017 15:09

Disturbances in Manchester and Liverpool are a concern. I hope the police and security services can continue to keep the peace, and that Labour party MPs and Corbyn have good security in place.

Angry kippers, and EDL, have been encouraged by May, Farage and Nuttells' language. I hope peace prevails.

Good to hear pro abortion North of Ireland women's group who were at the rally yesterday getting top billing on R4 World at One. I also hope that real practical feminism is going to be in the driving seat of a change of political culture in Britain. 200 women MPs is a fair ( but in European terms pretty pathetic) start.

Gove, like Trump and Nuttells could help Labour numbers even more.
Gove is responsible for horrendously difficult and poorly planned new GCSE exams. MN mums' kids have had to sit erroneous exam questions for GCSE English Literature, for the OCR syllabus and A level psychology.

Gove's a toxic brand. Could be useful.

OlennasWimple · 11/06/2017 15:09

dumbledore - I don't think that JC can present a Queen's Speech, though, unless / until HMQ has given him permission to try to form a government? He can talk about an alternative QS and present what would be in a QS, either in responding to TM's QS or in the media, but it's not a QS unless HMQ sits there and reads it out.

DumbledoresApprentice · 11/06/2017 15:11

Next Monday. So TM has a week to come up with a programme that will be acceptable her conservatives, the Scottish conservatives and the DUP. It may be possible to postpone it though, I'm really not sure if that date is fixed.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 15:12

twitter.com/DanielHewittITV/status/873904648062717954
Boris and Michael leak stuff to make themselves look good for supporting May.

Of course Gove isn't after a new job at all.

OP posts:
DumbledoresApprentice · 11/06/2017 15:13

But the convention is that the leader of the opposition is given an opportunity to try and get the confidence of the House if the government can't, I believe.

IrenetheQuaint · 11/06/2017 15:13

Am I the only person to be feeling sorry for Queenie? Grin

OlennasWimple · 11/06/2017 15:14

I don't think Brenda will leave the Palace unless everything is sorted out with a reasonable chance of the Tories being able to whip their party (and the DUP) into supporting the speech... A week is a long time in politics, so the saying goes...

Swipe left for the next trending thread