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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/06/2017 21:03

As the dust begins to settle after the drama of a result no one really thought would happen though many hoped, we start to wonder what else will happen.

Initially it looked like the best possible result. The trouble is May has decided true to form to be a pain in the backside and not know when to quit. Her trade mark management style to crash forward in a straight through obstacles, taking everything that gets in her way in the process, rather than taking the more sensible and less hazardous route. She has had a nasty habit of come hurdling to an abrupt and painful messy end as she hits an inpenatrable brick wall of law or circumstance.

The idea that she can be moderated in any way is ridiculous, especially if Nick and Fiona survive.

We now have a situation with a minority government and a prime minister with a manifesto full of controversial proposals that will largely be consigned to the bin out of fear of defeat. Her ambitions over human rights are not in the manifesto so an embolden House of Lords will just throw it out without fear – because constitutionally the Salisbury convention only applies to majority governments. She has become a lame duck.

The trouble is that this is a parliament that needs to pass measures because of Brexit. May’s ability to deal with the Great Repeal Act in particular is going to be next to impossible. Certainly with the time already wasted.

May’s insistence that nothing has changed and its business as usual merely adds insult to injury and makes the whole situation worse. It sets her up to fail at some point, but that could well be after she has single handedly lead the country to economic and social disaster. Her lack of understanding of this just shows her up as the poor one trick politician without real leadership skills and vision. It marks her arrogance and lack of respect for those who are her bosses.

She could have acknowledged that the election result was a wholesale rejection of her vision for Brexit and reached out to other parties for a consensus over Brexit she decided to go rushing in bed with the hardline right DUP.

We now have a situation where her loose agreement with the DUP to prop up her government could be in breach of the Good Friday Agreement, further risking instability in that part of the union. It is not only fool hardy, its reckless. Not only that, without a formal agreement in the form of a coalition, such support means the she can not rely on the back up of the Salisbury Convention.

This is also done without irony after vilifying Corbyn for his association with terrorists. It shows a total disregard for the colleagues who the DUP regard as an ‘abomination’ for being gay, especially Ruth Davidson who basically saved her political neck. She really is a political prisoner to their whims and demands. This arrangement with the one that John Major avoided even when he struggled with a minority government because of the problems it would cause. Of course, if you were cynical you might well argue that May wants to break the GFA.

The rest of the party will cowardly let her lurch from crisis to crisis because the like the spine to rid themselves of the problem. Political crisis which involve NI are particularly difficult and particularly risky. May risks constitutional crisis there, with the House of Lords, over our WTO status, with Human Rights of EU and British nationals, a possible no confidence vote and with EU negotiations. That’s just the big ones we can forsee now. Yet she sees herself as the champion of stability in this midst of it all with a staggering lack of self-awareness or brazen disregard. Its like how the GOP tolerate Trump for their Christian agenda, the Hard Brexiteers will tolerate May to get Brexit through in any way they can; though this now opens it up to being even more chaotic unless the liberals stand up to the ever increasing suicide of it. The reality is that the chances of her being able to persuade both the liberal and right wings to agree to the same plan is slim.

The chances of the house of cards simply collapsing and us left with another election are huge.

There is hope. More than a landslide would have brought, but this path is fraught with pitfalls, it is difficult to see May doing anything but charging headlong over a cliff and missing the best way out of this mess. David Davis has admitted that there is now no longer a mandate for hard Brexit and we will need to stay in the Single Market and Customs Union and Greg Clark is summoning business to support the course. There are calls from Sarah Wollaston, Heidi Allen and Yvette Cooper for a cross party approach to key issues. This of course is the last thing that the Wing Nuts – and May - will allow willingly.

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NancyWake · 11/06/2017 13:45

In other news: I'm not as hopeful as others about Labour supporting a soft Brexit.

Starmer was clear that Labour would end FOM and to do so would leave the single market.

The manifesto did not state that we would stay in the single market and customs union, merely 'retaining the benefits' while confirming the end of FOM.

It could be a cunning fudge, but equally it could just be of a piece with Boris's cake and eat it pipe dream.

I'm not convinced Corbyn is particularly pro-Europe other than on the rights front.

The question is whether Corbyn and McD would be more inclined to follow popular opinion if it turns out there's greater support for soft Brexit than leaving the single market.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 13:45

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-ukip-leader-return-considering-paul-nuttall-resignation-thinking-about-a7783951.html
Nigel Farage says he is 'thinking about' returning as Ukip leader after Paul Nuttall's resignation

It was only a matter of time before we heard this, wasn't it? He let Paul 'take one for the team' with the embarrassing, difficult election that was always going to happen after last year.

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RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 13:47

Starmer was clear that Labour would end FOM and to do so would leave the single market.

About as clear as Theresa May yes.

I've seen Keir quotes today saying the Single Market option was still option to discussion. Keir presented about 3 different options. I'm not convinced they will stick to the one printed in the manifesto tbh.

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BestIsWest · 11/06/2017 13:47

Didn't IP denounce the pope as the antichrist in the European Parliament?

ClashCityRocker · 11/06/2017 13:49

Dumb question (sorry!)

TM has such a small majority with dup.

Presumably at some point there will be by-elections. If the tories lose a few of those, does that mean they will no longer have a majority?

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 13:49

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/11/donald-trump-state-visit-to-britain-put-on-hold?CMP=share_btn_tw
Donald Trump's state visit to Britain put on hold
US president told Theresa May he did not want trip to go ahead if there were large-scale public protests

He's not coming. He's not coming. HE'S NOT COMING.

WOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO

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BestIsWest · 11/06/2017 13:50

Yes Clash, it does.

BestIsWest · 11/06/2017 13:50

What a shambles this is. I'm getting angrier by the hour.

NancyWake · 11/06/2017 13:53

Keir presented about 3 different options. I'm not convinced they will stick to the one printed in the manifesto tbh

Neither am I, and that includes for worse as much as for better, which is ultimately why didn't vote for them. Labour do not have a coherent policy on Brexit, they're as much divided as the Tories on the issue. And they're giving out mixed messages.

NancyWake · 11/06/2017 13:53

What Trump means is he doesn't want to be seen with a loser.

whatwouldrondo · 11/06/2017 14:01

Aww all those plans we had to make a lot of noise outside Windsor come to naught.... You get the distinct impression he did not much like travelling beyond foreign golf courses anyway, even took to a golf cart in the streets of Sicily, so he is probably relieved.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 14:06

Presumably at some point there will be by-elections. If the tories lose a few of those, does that mean they will no longer have a majority?

Nods.

That's how Major ended up with a minority.

I was reading yesterday that since 2000 there has only been one Tory MP who has died. 24 Labour ones have.

Michael Crick‏*@MichaelLCrick* 21 Oct 2015
Michael Meacher is 20th Labour MP to die in office since March 2000. Astonishingly, only one Tory MP - Eric Forth - has died in that time.

Labour MPs tend to serve until they are older and Conservative MPs are younger on average than Labour. That's been the main cause of by elections for the Labour party.

There have been therefore far less by-elections due to a Conservative MP vacancy appearing but they do happen. When they have happened in recent years its largely been down to political differences of opinion.

Louise Mensch quit mid term. Zac Goldsmith and David Davis both threw tantrums. Stephen Phillips quit the after the party became BlueKip. David Cameron quit because he was shit. Mark Reckless and Douglas Carswell quit to join UKIP.

Doesn't perhaps bode well does it?

We still don't know what will happen in South Thanet too.

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HashiAsLarry · 11/06/2017 14:08

Good old TM. She's managed to damage our special relationships with both ROI and the US without even trying.

SapphireStrange · 11/06/2017 14:08

Labour do not have a coherent policy on Brexit, they're as much divided as the Tories on the issue. And they're giving out mixed messages.

Yep. Corbyn is a Leaver at heart. I wouldn't trust him to front a party leading Brexit negotiations.

I like and respect Keir S, and I think he knows in his heart that leaving the single market and customs union, and ending FOM, would be a disaster, but I'd have to feel that he was being allowed to make decisions about negotiations, not just doing what Corbyn was telling him to.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 14:11

Honest Question: What HAS may done right / well since becoming PM?

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Sostenueto · 11/06/2017 14:11

If JC wants to privatise railways etc he has to come out of the EU completely to deliver on his manifesto so I think they will come out no doubt on that as JC will go with the will of the people.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 14:12

Sam Coates Times‏*@SamCoatesTimes*

Could Theresa May make a big generous offer to Michael Gove in this reshuffle? Perhaps even as DPM?
Sounds like deputy prime minister title being discussed. As is axing Leadsom. And a Gove return?

Now would be the time to run around screaming.

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RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 14:15

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/video-appears-show-clashes-during-13169137
Two arrested in clashes during Protestant march through Liverpool City Centre
Violence seems to have erupted as the group marched past an Irish bar

Far right march in Manchester today too. They are currently refusing to leave the city. They tried to go to St Ann's Sq were the memorial was.

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howabout · 11/06/2017 14:18

Just been having a scan through the updated lists of marginals and where UKIP vote went in some of those seats. If Labour do not stick to the manifesto they would be leaving dozens of seats hostage to fortune. Similarly for the Conservatives.

There are only 3 realistic marginals for the LibDems and one of them is in Scotland against Remain SNP.

I think Anna Soubry and co may feel a dose of political reality coming their way soon.

JMD's position is much more tenable.

whatwouldrondo · 11/06/2017 14:19

I am not sure that I agree with this because I think he underestimates the difficulties of the Northern Ireland issue, feelings are running high there already amongst the moderates, not surprisingly they are taking the chance to say look what we have had to put up with, it should not be allowed here, let alone in UK politics. Sinn Fein will not allow the governance of NI to be neatly packaged off from the governance of the UK. Even if they got an agreement politicians use power in organic ways not according to agreements. He must know only too well that May is temperamentally incapable of consensus politics, and frankly quite capable of persevering with her own agenda even if it is a bed of nails. It was also written for the Mail on Sunday so maybe he is packing it up to manage the readerships attitudes and expectations, especially those of his age group. Still some interesting insight on how the next months should pan out in a consensus government. medium.com/@vincentcable/no-secret-deals-no-bribes-and-no-hard-brexit-dac2377437b3

BiglyBadgers · 11/06/2017 14:20

I'm not convinced Corbyn is particularly pro-Europe other than on the rights front.

I am a big Corbyn fan, but I am also a big remainer and have no illusions at all that Corbyn is unquestioningly pro-eu. He is not and never has been a huge fan of the EU. However, he has just been given a huge boost by a largely remain sector of society and I don't think he is stupid enough to push for a hard Brexit in those circumstances. I imagine there is a lot of discussion going on in labour HQ right now about what their stance is going to be, but I can't see it being anything other than a softer brexit.

HashiAsLarry · 11/06/2017 14:27

The impression I've always held of Corbyn, and this election and his brexit campaign bolstered it, is that he's very definitely eurosceptic and not pro eu, but I don't thinks he's anti eu either to the point of no deal hard brexiteerism.

It was Starmer who got them to add the fom lines into the manifesto. Not Corbyn. That was a political rather than ideological move.

But as bigchoc pointed out, those manifestos are largely moot as neither side technically won that election. I doubt either needs to be beholden to them. And that's as beneficial as it is dangerous.

NancyWake · 11/06/2017 14:31

Hmm... have just read that McDonnell told Peston today that Labour will leave the single market.

"We will push for a jobs-first Brexit. Labour wants to respect the results of the referendum.

"Staying in the single market would not honour that. We remain absolutely wedded to completing Brexit and getting on with the job."

BiglyBadgers · 11/06/2017 14:33

Yes, eurosceptic is right I think Hashi. He is certainly no hard brexiteer.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 14:34

Ben Howlett‏*@ben4bath*
Thanks to @theresa_may for phoning me this afternoon following the #Bath election result. Our Govt must stay united in the national interest

Henry Zeffman‏*@hzeffman*

May finally begins ringing round defeated Tory MPs

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