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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/06/2017 21:03

As the dust begins to settle after the drama of a result no one really thought would happen though many hoped, we start to wonder what else will happen.

Initially it looked like the best possible result. The trouble is May has decided true to form to be a pain in the backside and not know when to quit. Her trade mark management style to crash forward in a straight through obstacles, taking everything that gets in her way in the process, rather than taking the more sensible and less hazardous route. She has had a nasty habit of come hurdling to an abrupt and painful messy end as she hits an inpenatrable brick wall of law or circumstance.

The idea that she can be moderated in any way is ridiculous, especially if Nick and Fiona survive.

We now have a situation with a minority government and a prime minister with a manifesto full of controversial proposals that will largely be consigned to the bin out of fear of defeat. Her ambitions over human rights are not in the manifesto so an embolden House of Lords will just throw it out without fear – because constitutionally the Salisbury convention only applies to majority governments. She has become a lame duck.

The trouble is that this is a parliament that needs to pass measures because of Brexit. May’s ability to deal with the Great Repeal Act in particular is going to be next to impossible. Certainly with the time already wasted.

May’s insistence that nothing has changed and its business as usual merely adds insult to injury and makes the whole situation worse. It sets her up to fail at some point, but that could well be after she has single handedly lead the country to economic and social disaster. Her lack of understanding of this just shows her up as the poor one trick politician without real leadership skills and vision. It marks her arrogance and lack of respect for those who are her bosses.

She could have acknowledged that the election result was a wholesale rejection of her vision for Brexit and reached out to other parties for a consensus over Brexit she decided to go rushing in bed with the hardline right DUP.

We now have a situation where her loose agreement with the DUP to prop up her government could be in breach of the Good Friday Agreement, further risking instability in that part of the union. It is not only fool hardy, its reckless. Not only that, without a formal agreement in the form of a coalition, such support means the she can not rely on the back up of the Salisbury Convention.

This is also done without irony after vilifying Corbyn for his association with terrorists. It shows a total disregard for the colleagues who the DUP regard as an ‘abomination’ for being gay, especially Ruth Davidson who basically saved her political neck. She really is a political prisoner to their whims and demands. This arrangement with the one that John Major avoided even when he struggled with a minority government because of the problems it would cause. Of course, if you were cynical you might well argue that May wants to break the GFA.

The rest of the party will cowardly let her lurch from crisis to crisis because the like the spine to rid themselves of the problem. Political crisis which involve NI are particularly difficult and particularly risky. May risks constitutional crisis there, with the House of Lords, over our WTO status, with Human Rights of EU and British nationals, a possible no confidence vote and with EU negotiations. That’s just the big ones we can forsee now. Yet she sees herself as the champion of stability in this midst of it all with a staggering lack of self-awareness or brazen disregard. Its like how the GOP tolerate Trump for their Christian agenda, the Hard Brexiteers will tolerate May to get Brexit through in any way they can; though this now opens it up to being even more chaotic unless the liberals stand up to the ever increasing suicide of it. The reality is that the chances of her being able to persuade both the liberal and right wings to agree to the same plan is slim.

The chances of the house of cards simply collapsing and us left with another election are huge.

There is hope. More than a landslide would have brought, but this path is fraught with pitfalls, it is difficult to see May doing anything but charging headlong over a cliff and missing the best way out of this mess. David Davis has admitted that there is now no longer a mandate for hard Brexit and we will need to stay in the Single Market and Customs Union and Greg Clark is summoning business to support the course. There are calls from Sarah Wollaston, Heidi Allen and Yvette Cooper for a cross party approach to key issues. This of course is the last thing that the Wing Nuts – and May - will allow willingly.

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citroenpresse · 11/06/2017 12:21

Timothy's resignation statement says the Labour surge had not been anticipated but was also not being tracked: "modern campaigning techniques require ever-narrowing targeting of specific voters, and we were not talking to the people who decided to vote Labour". That seems to be a dig at Crosby and his vote preference software but also such a contrast to Labour's more expansive and diverse campaign which both energised huge youth vote but also persuaded Ukippers to return.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 12:24

This thread about common knowledge (excuses for poor education) might have just made me spontaneously combust with RAGE

Osborne is doing a useful job at the Standard but he's still a cunt.
A useful cunt instead of idiot. That's a new one.

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BiglyBadgers · 11/06/2017 12:25

Osborne was the architect for austerity

Which is exactly why I find it so entertaining watching him tear into the May Government. Sort of like watching two BNP members punching each other in the face over whose the best racist. Saves the rest of us a job. Wink

NancyWake · 11/06/2017 12:27

Which is exactly why I find it so entertaining watching him tear into the May Government. Sort of like watching two BNP members punching each other in the face over whose the best racist

Grin
BiglyBadgers · 11/06/2017 12:30

That thread just made my fingers itch Red. I wouldn't mind the ignorance over NI so much if people hadn't been so damn quick to jump all over any hint that Corbyn had so much as seen a member of the IRA. Having a go at him around the IRA when they clearly have not even the foggiest notion of the context or issues around the Troubles just fills me with rage. Angry

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 12:31

Timothy remarks just admitted that they didn't value people who didn't vote and saw no reason to include them decisions about the society they wish to create. Tories didn't have to be accountable to those people. That doesn't get him off the hook and pass it on to Crosby. It just makes him complicit as there were 8 months in government before the election was announced when they did bugger all for those people.

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RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 12:37

Bigly. Its not just Corbyn. Its the border issues that Brexit raised that no one paid attention to. The number of times when its come up in conversation on this forum and there has just been a shrug of the shoulder and a 'not my problem' is appalling.

Its fine for us to criticise Muslims for being homophobic and not fitting in with 'our way of life and culture' but there is a complete blind spot as to what is 'traditional' in NI (or in May's world) in this regard.

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BiglyBadgers · 11/06/2017 12:47

Exactly red. It's not as if it hasn't been a key topic recently. There has been every opportunity for people to think "oh, I don't know much about that, I'll have a Google". But no, instead they leap on headlines and ignore the issues, then look surprised when things aren't as simple as they imagined.

HashiAsLarry · 11/06/2017 12:51

It's exceptionally infuriating. I won't even pretend to have a great knowledge of NI, but I have some basics. I remember what I saw on the news at the time. I've talked to army guys who served out there informally. It's a clusterfuck of giant proportions,.

Can't see an excuse , when many people know who Iain Paisley was, that they have no idea of who the DUP are. Or even were as parties can adapt.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 13:00

Oh I don't know a huge amount about NI politics. I perhaps should know more. Another huge failing of the media and a consequence of propaganda.

What equally pissed me off about that thread was the righting off of people as 'just not interested' too. Its really not that simple. That's the type of attitude that ultimately wrote off girls in Rochdale. Its about opportunity and a culture that values people and education's role in that.

It almost a middle class attitude that justifies the inequality in the system as being because those individuals 'are just not interested'.

Grrrr. That thread on so many levels...

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citroenpresse · 11/06/2017 13:02

red it is an attempt to shove blame but it only underlies the arrogance of the Tory machine and how fragile and out of touch they are. They have no grass roots support and it seems 0 interest in reaching out for supporters or even, inexcusably, that young people should be engaged. That has been Corbyn's mission and it worked.

citroenpresse · 11/06/2017 13:05

Timothy's absolutely complicit in their failure. Sheltering May crap for all of us.

BestIsWest · 11/06/2017 13:06

I'm not even going to open that thread.

BiglyBadgers · 11/06/2017 13:06

That the thing red I don't expect people to know everything and I certainly know that I don't. I am terrible at remembering dates and would certainly not claim to be any expert on NI. I am sure there are gaps in my knowledge some people would find unbelievable and shocking. However, if a topic comes up in the news or conversation I will go and make an effort to find out a bit more about it. I will look for opposing viewpoints to newspaper stories and double check my own views on things. It is not the fact that people don't know stuff, it is that they absolve themselves of the responsibility for knowing it.

Badders123 · 11/06/2017 13:22

Polly toynbee did have a go at taking osbourne to task over austerity
But he just shrugged his shoulders and laughed

NancyWake · 11/06/2017 13:29

However, if a topic comes up in the news or conversation I will go and make an effort to find out a bit more about it. I will look for opposing viewpoints to newspaper stories and double check my own views on things. It is not the fact that people don't know stuff, it is that they absolve themselves of the responsibility for knowing it.

Brexit has shown up a divide between those who go away and research topics and those who cba.

It's partly an educational/cultural thing, but not wholly. There are plenty of clever, well-educated people who either don't engage much with politics or who are superficially interested but don't run to researching stuff.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 13:31

Yes you did read this right.

The DUP want to give Farage an active role in Brexit talks.

I can't for the life of me work out why.

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Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit
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HashiAsLarry · 11/06/2017 13:32

@endakellytd
Spoke w PM May -indicated my concern that nothing should happen to put GoodFridayAgrmt at risk & absence of nationalist voice in Westminster

Aren't ROI meant to be our big allies in the exit negotiations?

HashiAsLarry · 11/06/2017 13:32

The lib dems weren't far wrong with their vote for TM get Farage line

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 13:33

If you have to research the difference between NI and Ireland that's not just a cultural/education difference. Its a FAILING.

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HashiAsLarry · 11/06/2017 13:37

Argh. Just seen I spelt Enda Kenny as Kelly ffs. My dm would be highly ashamed Blush

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 13:37

"They want Farage as a Lord or a role in government or he and Arron will put something together that will cause trouble for May"^

BRING IT ON. DO IT.

I seem to remember him not wanting this. What changed? Arh yes. Will of the people.

Aren't ROI meant to be our big allies in the exit negotiations?

They are not happy, and we just pissed them off. Of course Sinn Fein were going to look for support from Dublin.

I'm starting to think that Theresa May doesn't know the difference between NI and Ireland tbf.

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flippinada · 11/06/2017 13:41

I'm starting to think T May doesn't know her arse from her elbow, never mind anything else.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 13:42

Michael Coren‏ @michaelcoren
I interviewed #DUP founder Ian Paisley several times & he assured me the #pope was the anti-Christ. I hope RC Tories realize this. #DUPFacts

The Dear Old Reverend. Who made himself his own church to be a reverend of.

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RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 13:44

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/theresa-may/news/86605/theresa-may-be-hauled-emergency

Graham Brady, chairman of the powerful 1922 committee of Conservative backbenchers, said he wanted their next meeting with the Prime Minister brought forward by 24 hours as the crisis surrounding her leadership continues.

Brought forward 24 hours. Sounds like things are getting serious.

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