Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/06/2017 21:03

As the dust begins to settle after the drama of a result no one really thought would happen though many hoped, we start to wonder what else will happen.

Initially it looked like the best possible result. The trouble is May has decided true to form to be a pain in the backside and not know when to quit. Her trade mark management style to crash forward in a straight through obstacles, taking everything that gets in her way in the process, rather than taking the more sensible and less hazardous route. She has had a nasty habit of come hurdling to an abrupt and painful messy end as she hits an inpenatrable brick wall of law or circumstance.

The idea that she can be moderated in any way is ridiculous, especially if Nick and Fiona survive.

We now have a situation with a minority government and a prime minister with a manifesto full of controversial proposals that will largely be consigned to the bin out of fear of defeat. Her ambitions over human rights are not in the manifesto so an embolden House of Lords will just throw it out without fear – because constitutionally the Salisbury convention only applies to majority governments. She has become a lame duck.

The trouble is that this is a parliament that needs to pass measures because of Brexit. May’s ability to deal with the Great Repeal Act in particular is going to be next to impossible. Certainly with the time already wasted.

May’s insistence that nothing has changed and its business as usual merely adds insult to injury and makes the whole situation worse. It sets her up to fail at some point, but that could well be after she has single handedly lead the country to economic and social disaster. Her lack of understanding of this just shows her up as the poor one trick politician without real leadership skills and vision. It marks her arrogance and lack of respect for those who are her bosses.

She could have acknowledged that the election result was a wholesale rejection of her vision for Brexit and reached out to other parties for a consensus over Brexit she decided to go rushing in bed with the hardline right DUP.

We now have a situation where her loose agreement with the DUP to prop up her government could be in breach of the Good Friday Agreement, further risking instability in that part of the union. It is not only fool hardy, its reckless. Not only that, without a formal agreement in the form of a coalition, such support means the she can not rely on the back up of the Salisbury Convention.

This is also done without irony after vilifying Corbyn for his association with terrorists. It shows a total disregard for the colleagues who the DUP regard as an ‘abomination’ for being gay, especially Ruth Davidson who basically saved her political neck. She really is a political prisoner to their whims and demands. This arrangement with the one that John Major avoided even when he struggled with a minority government because of the problems it would cause. Of course, if you were cynical you might well argue that May wants to break the GFA.

The rest of the party will cowardly let her lurch from crisis to crisis because the like the spine to rid themselves of the problem. Political crisis which involve NI are particularly difficult and particularly risky. May risks constitutional crisis there, with the House of Lords, over our WTO status, with Human Rights of EU and British nationals, a possible no confidence vote and with EU negotiations. That’s just the big ones we can forsee now. Yet she sees herself as the champion of stability in this midst of it all with a staggering lack of self-awareness or brazen disregard. Its like how the GOP tolerate Trump for their Christian agenda, the Hard Brexiteers will tolerate May to get Brexit through in any way they can; though this now opens it up to being even more chaotic unless the liberals stand up to the ever increasing suicide of it. The reality is that the chances of her being able to persuade both the liberal and right wings to agree to the same plan is slim.

The chances of the house of cards simply collapsing and us left with another election are huge.

There is hope. More than a landslide would have brought, but this path is fraught with pitfalls, it is difficult to see May doing anything but charging headlong over a cliff and missing the best way out of this mess. David Davis has admitted that there is now no longer a mandate for hard Brexit and we will need to stay in the Single Market and Customs Union and Greg Clark is summoning business to support the course. There are calls from Sarah Wollaston, Heidi Allen and Yvette Cooper for a cross party approach to key issues. This of course is the last thing that the Wing Nuts – and May - will allow willingly.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
33
Sostenueto · 11/06/2017 11:01

Will JB have the patience to wait for the s... To fly when Tories get a real bad deal on brexit?

citroenpresse · 11/06/2017 11:03

Tories DO own the whole Brexit mess. Cameron seems to be getting off lightly. John McDonald and single market...manifesto specifically says 'benefits' of single market. A lot of younger voters are remainers - he will not be allowed to go rogue on that for long.

annandale · 11/06/2017 11:05

Continuing to enjoy the thread, thank you.

Sostenuto, you are far from the only one who voted on local or national issues rather than Brexit and I think you are exactly right in seeing both the EU and Brexit as mainly things that fall on the economically exposed Flowers When David Davis released that hilarious graph that showed exactly how good the EU has been for the British economy, I wanted someone to grab it and use it to say 'the EU has given us loads of money and the question now is, where did the money go?' Maybe they were afraid the Tories would use it to say it went on tax credits, but they might not be too specific about that having found that people tend to like tax credits. I suppose they would have said it went to Juncker's corruption or something. I personally think you only have to look at Nigel Farage's multiple houses, Murdoch's citizen of Taxhavenstan lifestyle and Arron Banks being able literally to buy a series of political parties for his own amusement and you can see exactly where the money has gone. Jess Phillips said she had to bring Brexit up on the doorsteps, nobody mentioned it, though I think that may be partly because people think it's already happened.

Can I also say - perhaps not really for this thread which is full of much more knowledgeable people than me - but some years back a book that really helped me re being less clueless about Northern Ireland was Making Sense of the Troubles. I don't know if there's been a new edition since, but it was a really helpful, readable book. I might donate a copy to my son's school library.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 11:05

John McDonald and single market...manifesto specifically says 'benefits' of single market. A lot of younger voters are remainers - he will not be allowed to go rogue on that for long.

Broadly agree. Especially since so much power on the ground is student power.

OP posts:
Sostenueto · 11/06/2017 11:08

Thanks Annadale xx

annandale · 11/06/2017 11:10

Before anyone gets nice about Osborne, I do want to say that it was him and Cameron who have ruined any chance of coalitions in the future by treating the Liberal Democrats with utter contempt as convenient receptacles for blame, and outmanoeuvring them. The idea of actually governing by consensus would have seemed like namby-pamby idiocy to them, the sort of thing that gets crushed out of you by the second term at boarding school. and I have no doubt that May played her part in that, not being a collegiate type.

Artisanjam · 11/06/2017 11:10

^It is an absolute shambles that the Tories claimed to have struck a formal deal with the DUP, only to now admit that no such deal was in place. Theresa May’s government is in absolute chaos.
If the Tories do agree a confidence and supply arrangement, the public will have little confidence in it. We must have absolute transparency over what agreements will be reached for the supply of DUP votes.
It would be nothing short of scandalous if the Tory party jeopardised the return of government in Northern Ireland and the Good Friday process in order to cling on to power at Westminster.
At the same time there are very real questions to be asked over any suggestion that equal rights for LGBTI people or women’s rights could be diminished in any part of the UK by this deal.
The PM’s private reassurances are worthless given her track record of u-turns and her clear desperation to cling to power.
SNP MPs will always work with other parties in support of progressive policies across the UK and we will demand full scrutiny and transparency over any confidence and supply arrangement.^

It looks like there is an informal anti-may coalition already starting... the snp are trying to hold her feet to the fire over any deal with the DUP and the more the problems with the DUP are mentioned the worse it gets for May.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 11:11

eilir jones‏*@eilirjones*

1+1= 2

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit
OP posts:
CaptainBrickbeard · 11/06/2017 11:14

If May didn't cry about this then she really would be a robot! This must be incredibly painful and humiliating on a personal level for her.

I do love the idea of the Tories reaping the punishment of Brexit, but as satisfying as that would be to watch, we would all pay the price of leaving the EU and there would be no way back so I hope it doesn't come to that.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 11:17

blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/who-swung-ge2017/?utm_content=buffer750ab&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
The one where the LSE suggest that 'lazy' older people not turning out out to vote was as important as the young voting.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 11:26

Rupert Myers‏*@RupertMyers*
I hope somebody soon uses parliamentary privilege to discuss the words "DUP" and oh, I don't know, apropos of nothing, "super injunction"

A necessarily bland story on super injunctions in NI

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/revealed-record-number-of-superinjunctions-issued-in-northern-ireland-35244524.html
Revealed: Record number of super-injunctions issued in Northern Ireland

Faisal Islam‏*@faisalislam*
Any Conservative thinking on how to reconnect with young people? ... at the moment seeing a lot of them calling young people "stupid"
Eg Irony:
June 16: Those who say Leave voters lied to are calling 17m people stupid
June 17: Young people stupid..they vote for free stuff
... in fact @anna_soubry the exception to that - clearly deeply concerned about long term Tory prospects given massive youth vote

OP posts:
citroenpresse · 11/06/2017 11:27

Really hope Labour don't get carried away...they might (as JMcD said) have actually won if the campaign had gone on a couple of weeks later but still a hefty number of seats adrift. Hope they keep focusing on THEIR strategies and wait for the Tories to self-destruct.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 11:28

Jon Worth‏*@jonworth*

One gains the strong impression Süddeutsche’s correspondents are having a good laugh about the UK! #ge17

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit
OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 11:29

Jon Worth‏*@jonworth*
One gains the strong impression Süddeutsche’s correspondents are having a good laugh about the UK! #ge17

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit
OP posts:
DumbledoresApprentice · 11/06/2017 11:31

Ouch! That's a pretty damning front page.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 11:31

Ellie Price‏*@EllieJPrice*
Chair of Tory backbench 1922 committee suggests grammar schools won't be dropped but there could be a "modest pilot in inner urban areas".

Modest pilot. Grin

OP posts:
hushlittlepuppy · 11/06/2017 11:33

"This must be incredibly painful and humiliating on a personal level for her."

No sympathy from me, I'm afraid.

No more cake and eating it but a yummy scrummy freshly baked humble pie for Mrs May.

Remember her enthusiastic:

‘if you believe you are a citizen of the world, you’re a citizen of nowhere’.

#whatgoesaroundcomesaround

BiglyBadgers · 11/06/2017 11:34

Umm... He does know grammer schools already exist and studies have shown they have a negative overall impact on attainment in the area they are in due to the impact on other schools? I think that pretty much covers the pilot Hmm

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 11:35

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/09/theresa-may-rejected-tory-detoxification-behind-this-mess
Theresa May rejected the Tory detoxification project. That’s what’s behind this mess

Detoxifying the Tory party would prove to be as painful as detoxifying your gut. And like any other cleanse, a short-cut could only ever be self-defeating. Before he moved on to literal detoxes, Gove was one of the few who grasped this instinctively: in 2001 he co-edited an essay collection, A Blue Tomorrow, that addressed the Tories’ enthusiasm gap in depth. In one essay, the pollster Andrew Cooper lamented the “remarkably large number of people who can’t, or won’t, accept the truth of how we are seen by others, or the reality that this means the party must change fundamentally or die”. These included the “Millwall tendency” (“Nobody likes us and we don’t care”); the “flat-earthers” (“people who deny, in the face of all empirical evidence, that the Conservative party is at crisis point”) and “the face-lift faction” (those who advocate cosmetic change). All were standing in the way of detoxification.

Sixteen years and four prime ministers later, Cooper’s three toxic tribes have all left their mark on the Conservative party. Gove may have been the great moderniser hope, but his move to the Department of Education and his obvious delight in antagonising the teaching profession soon transformed him into the Millwall-Tory-in-chief (“the blob don’t like me and I don’t care”). David Cameron, of course, was the “face-lift faction” personified: giving his party a new eco-green logo but still surrounding himself with Old Etonians. As for the flat-earth faction: they are everywhere.

OP posts:
Gettingthere7 · 11/06/2017 11:36

May! Blunder after blunder. After running the worst campaign in living memory she's now being given the run around by the DUP. Deal sorted....not sorted. If she can't negotiate a deal with 10 MPS how the hell does she expect us to believe she can negotiate a brexit deal! Time to go.

IrenetheQuaint · 11/06/2017 11:43

Impossible to 'pilot' new grammar schools without repealing law that bans setting them up. Impossible to repeal law with teensy Tory majority - there is lots of opposition from within the party.

NancyWake · 11/06/2017 12:01

Before anyone gets nice about Osborne, I do want to say that it was him and Cameron who have ruined any chance of coalitions in the future by treating the Liberal Democrats with utter contempt as convenient receptacles for blame, and outmanoeuvring them. The idea of actually governing by consensus would have seemed like namby-pamby idiocy to them

Agreed and let's not forget that Osborne was the architect of an austerity that amounted to an attack on the human rights of the sick and disabled and the poorest in society. An austerity so harsh that it led to the vote to Leave. That we have Osborne and Cameron to thank for the Brexit referendum and the truly appalling campaign.

Osborne is doing a useful job at the Standard but he's still a cunt.

citroenpresse · 11/06/2017 12:06

Thoughtful piece on Tory troubles on ConservativeHome by Paul Goodman. May is untenable. The 'evil that the manifesto did lives after it' (CH were largely supportive) but also 'we members had no say in May's election, and that hasn't turned out well'.

Badders123 · 11/06/2017 12:14

I can never countenance gove for what he's done to education
Osborne was the architect for austerity
Boris...well...he would make the UK even more of a laughing stock

HashiAsLarry · 11/06/2017 12:17

Just to lighten the mood

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit
Swipe left for the next trending thread