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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/06/2017 21:03

As the dust begins to settle after the drama of a result no one really thought would happen though many hoped, we start to wonder what else will happen.

Initially it looked like the best possible result. The trouble is May has decided true to form to be a pain in the backside and not know when to quit. Her trade mark management style to crash forward in a straight through obstacles, taking everything that gets in her way in the process, rather than taking the more sensible and less hazardous route. She has had a nasty habit of come hurdling to an abrupt and painful messy end as she hits an inpenatrable brick wall of law or circumstance.

The idea that she can be moderated in any way is ridiculous, especially if Nick and Fiona survive.

We now have a situation with a minority government and a prime minister with a manifesto full of controversial proposals that will largely be consigned to the bin out of fear of defeat. Her ambitions over human rights are not in the manifesto so an embolden House of Lords will just throw it out without fear – because constitutionally the Salisbury convention only applies to majority governments. She has become a lame duck.

The trouble is that this is a parliament that needs to pass measures because of Brexit. May’s ability to deal with the Great Repeal Act in particular is going to be next to impossible. Certainly with the time already wasted.

May’s insistence that nothing has changed and its business as usual merely adds insult to injury and makes the whole situation worse. It sets her up to fail at some point, but that could well be after she has single handedly lead the country to economic and social disaster. Her lack of understanding of this just shows her up as the poor one trick politician without real leadership skills and vision. It marks her arrogance and lack of respect for those who are her bosses.

She could have acknowledged that the election result was a wholesale rejection of her vision for Brexit and reached out to other parties for a consensus over Brexit she decided to go rushing in bed with the hardline right DUP.

We now have a situation where her loose agreement with the DUP to prop up her government could be in breach of the Good Friday Agreement, further risking instability in that part of the union. It is not only fool hardy, its reckless. Not only that, without a formal agreement in the form of a coalition, such support means the she can not rely on the back up of the Salisbury Convention.

This is also done without irony after vilifying Corbyn for his association with terrorists. It shows a total disregard for the colleagues who the DUP regard as an ‘abomination’ for being gay, especially Ruth Davidson who basically saved her political neck. She really is a political prisoner to their whims and demands. This arrangement with the one that John Major avoided even when he struggled with a minority government because of the problems it would cause. Of course, if you were cynical you might well argue that May wants to break the GFA.

The rest of the party will cowardly let her lurch from crisis to crisis because the like the spine to rid themselves of the problem. Political crisis which involve NI are particularly difficult and particularly risky. May risks constitutional crisis there, with the House of Lords, over our WTO status, with Human Rights of EU and British nationals, a possible no confidence vote and with EU negotiations. That’s just the big ones we can forsee now. Yet she sees herself as the champion of stability in this midst of it all with a staggering lack of self-awareness or brazen disregard. Its like how the GOP tolerate Trump for their Christian agenda, the Hard Brexiteers will tolerate May to get Brexit through in any way they can; though this now opens it up to being even more chaotic unless the liberals stand up to the ever increasing suicide of it. The reality is that the chances of her being able to persuade both the liberal and right wings to agree to the same plan is slim.

The chances of the house of cards simply collapsing and us left with another election are huge.

There is hope. More than a landslide would have brought, but this path is fraught with pitfalls, it is difficult to see May doing anything but charging headlong over a cliff and missing the best way out of this mess. David Davis has admitted that there is now no longer a mandate for hard Brexit and we will need to stay in the Single Market and Customs Union and Greg Clark is summoning business to support the course. There are calls from Sarah Wollaston, Heidi Allen and Yvette Cooper for a cross party approach to key issues. This of course is the last thing that the Wing Nuts – and May - will allow willingly.

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Thread gallery
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citroenpresse · 11/06/2017 00:03

Because Corbynists driven into a frenzy by free money voted in DROVES and therefore caused the problem in the first place.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/06/2017 00:03

I remember discussing before with LH how surprised I was that so many literate adults don't have what I had assumed was basic general knowledge, at least for anyone educated to age 18.

Recently I've had to add to my list: knowing what "the Final Solution" refers to.
Now I'll add knowing what the DUP is - since it's a key party in a Uk civil war that cost 3,000 lives not that long ago and which often spread its carnage to English towns & cities.

I don't want to be a grumpy old woman, but genuinely in my teens, twenties, thirties my contemporaries - including those who left school at 15-16 and also my dad's generation who left at 14 - knew a lot more about UK & European history, especially recent and about current affairs.

Now, it seems it's natural not to know something that wasn't specifically on a school exam syllabus.

I wonder Hmm if it is because with all the electronic gadgets, many younger people don't have general conversation with a wide variety of people of all ages & experiences, which is probably how much general knowledge used to be passed on ...
that has been replaced by online entertainment or an echo chamber with very restricted knowledge of the world outside

BigChocFrenzy · 11/06/2017 00:08

Naturally most people use Tinternet to find out more about the world.
It's the greatest ever opportunity to learn about EVERYTHING. it can be amazing.
But some do use it to close down their horizons

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 00:11

Couldn't resist.

Just so fed up of the last twelve months grind of people unable to grasp the concept of democracy.

I've been prattling about the culture of blame and May all week and yeah... I think Thursday night's lack of sleep is still catching up with me.

I think I want to blow this up and frame it right now. Of all the people, whose 'fault' it was, this is the best ever. Greatest thing about it? If they do blame Juncker than in effect they hang May at the same time, because she was supposed to be the one who could outsmart the evil EU and win the negotiation through being cleverer. And she got duped. Strong and Stable amazingly tough genius Treeza got owned.

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit
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RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 00:13

Survation/Mail (EURef ex DKs):

REMAIN 51 (+3)
LEAVE 49 (-3)

Jun 10th

Plunk

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RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 00:14

Will Jennings‏*@drjennings*
I am not entirely convinced that Boris Johnson is as popular with the public as some hacks believe. Hardly going to win Remainers back.
If the answer is Boris Johnson, then the Conservative Party is probably asking the wrong question.

This

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OlennasWimple · 11/06/2017 00:15

I've stolen this historical poster picture from another thread but thought it vaguely amusing

Jeremy Corbyn has told the Mirror that he intends to use the Queen's Speech to start the process of ousting TM. I think that the Queen's Speech not getting through triggers a further vote of no confidence, right?

BigChocFrenzy · 11/06/2017 00:15

I returned to the mad thread .... and what do I see:

The Junker bomb
"Gets coat and runs off laughing maniacally"
Oh you naughty red Grin

woman12345 · 11/06/2017 00:16

You have probably got a point there, BigChoc about general education. The BBC used to genuinely educate, until the 1980s too. We're learning alongside the kids now too though. The DUP petition is over 600 000 now.

6% labour lead red, yikes. Not the June 10th I was expecting.
And whoop di doo on latest brexit polls.

They are really stuck in their posh tory bubble if they think BJ or even MG can catch the popular mood now. That moment has passed. You can fool some of the people some of the time etc.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 00:17

Jon Stone‏*@joncstone*

Not only is a there a poll showing the Tories behind Labour, there’s also one showing every replacement for May would make them less popular

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit
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woman12345 · 11/06/2017 00:21

^Why the Tories are terrified of another General Election
Conservative MPs believe Jeremy Corbyn has the momentum to win more seats if there is another poll soon^
.
news.sky.com/story/why-the-tories-are-terrified-of-another-general-election-10911525?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

The numbers do add up, here.

squoosh · 11/06/2017 00:25

how surprised I was that so many literate adults don't have what I had assumed was basic general knowledge, at least for anyone educated to age 18.

I remember being really shocked that a friend of mine (bright, university educated) didn't know the dates of the World Wars, just year dates not month and day dates. I assumed everyone knew 1914-1918 and 1939-1945 as basic general knowledge facts. Things that even if you didn't study history in school you'd have absorbed by osmosis from war films, documentaries etc.

The thread where some people clearly had no clue as to what 'Final Solution' referred to was a real eye opener.

woman12345 · 11/06/2017 00:26

Faisal Islam‏Verified account
@faisalislam
What a chart. My theory about Brexity Tory campaign working best in NE/ Yorks & not NW/ Wales = correct via @nytimes

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit
RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 00:28

David Blevins‏**@skydavidblevins** 26 minutes ago
BREAK: The DUP says talks with the Tories are continuing. The party has NOT yet agreed to back the Tories on a confidence and supply basis.

David Blevins‏**@skydavidblevins** 3 minutes ago
BREAK: DUP has NOT yet reached any agreement with the Tories. Sky sources: Downing Street issued the wrong statement in error.

OMG. I'm HOWLING at this.

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woman12345 · 11/06/2017 00:28

The 30 Tory seats with the slimmest majorities

  1. Southampton Itchen (31 majority, Labour second)
  2. Richmond Park (45 majority, Lib Dems second)
  3. Stirling (148 majority, SNP second)
  4. St Ives (312 majority, Lib Dems second)
  5. Pudsey (331 majority, Labour second)
  6. Hastings & Rye (346 majority, Labour second)
  7. Chipping Barnet (353 majority, Labour second)
  8. Thurrock (345 majority, Labour second)
  9. Preseli Pembrokeshire (314 majority, Labour second)
10. Calder Valley (609 majority, Labour second) 11. Norwich North (507 majority, Labour second) 12. Broxtowe (865 majority, Labour second) 13. Stoke-on-Trent South (663 majority, Labour second) 14. Telford (720 majority, Labour second) 15. Bolton West (936 majority, Labour second) 16. Aberconwy (635 majority, Labour second) 17. Northampton North (807 majority, Labour second) 18. Hendon (1,072 majority, Labour second) 19. Mansfield (1,057 majority, Labour second) 20. Middlesbrough South & Cleveland East (1,020 majority, Labour second) 21. Milton Keynes South (1,725 majority, Labour second) 22. Northampton South (1,159 majority, Labour second) 23. Pendle (1,279 majority, Labour second) 24. Milton Keynes North (1,915 majority, Labour second) 25. Morecambe & Lunesdale (1,399 majority, Labour second) 26. Finchley & Golders Green (1,657 majority, Labour second) 27. Camborne & Redruth (1,577 majority, Labour second) 28. Putney (1,554 majority, Labour second) 29. Harrow East (1,757 majority, Labour second) 30. Watford (2,092 majority, Labour second)
RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 00:29

So it begins. The hostage must not interfere with the Orange Marches.

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit
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woman12345 · 11/06/2017 00:34

Those marches are viscerally terrifying. I've been stuck in the middle of them on a bus in Liverpool on a Catholic estate, it was horrible. I think they are the nearest thing we have to the Ku Klux Klan.

Much good it will do May agreeing to them, though. The more we see of the tories, the more we are learning about them. I don't think the conservative party will exist in a few years.

squoosh · 11/06/2017 00:35

They are really stuck in their posh tory bubble if they think BJ or even MG can catch the popular mood now. That moment has passed.

I think one of the reasons Ruth Davidson has become so popular in Scotland is because she bucks the posh Tory profile and that has discombobulated people to a large degree. There's a lot of 'I don't like the Tories but I like Ruth' and clearly some have decided they like her so much they've got past the not liking the Tories thing and voted for her. She seems quite relatable in terms of her upbringing and accent. She has a sense of humour and loves any opportunity to demonstrate in a photo op how 'normal' she is, straddling a cannon or riding a unicycle (not sure if she's done either of those but wouldn't be surprised). I know some people seethe at how they see her as hoodwinking the public into falling for the loveable Tory but in pure PR terms these are the reasons it's worked.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/06/2017 00:37

Best betting odds on next Tory leader:

Clear Fav is Bojo 5/4
DD 4/1
Ruth 9/2 (not even an MP)
Rudd 5/1
Hammond 10/1
Javid 15/1
Gove 20/1
Greening 20/1
Crabb 25/1
Farage 50/1 !
Soubry 66/1
Cameron 66/1 !

Motheroffourdragons · 11/06/2017 00:39

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

whatwouldrondo · 11/06/2017 00:40

From Vince Cable
. @TheresaMayPM should not resign. She won. And she made this bed of nails. She should lie on it. #GE2017 #Brexit

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 00:41

David Blevins‏ @skydavidblevins
BREAK: The DUP says talks with the Tories are continuing. The party has NOT yet agreed to back the Tories on a confidence and supply basis.

David Allen Green‏*@davidallengreen*
In two years time, under May, the EU will also have to issue such clarificatory statements about supposed areas of agreement.

May couldn't negotiate her way out of a paper bag could she?

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squoosh · 11/06/2017 00:43

I fucking despise Orange walks and deeply resent my council tax facilitating the many Orange walks that take place in Glasgow every summer.

The Tories may as well piss all over the GFA if they end up pandering to the Orange Order.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2017 00:43

For clarification that image was tweeted by David Blevins at Sky

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woman12345 · 11/06/2017 00:45

Davis has unfinished business, he was up for the leadership and thought he was a shoe in in 2010, but DC performed better in the leadership speech. He can at least act human, and has a good back story (humble origins etc) . But that Brexit committee meeting was embarrassing. He has not a clue.

squoosh I agree, Davidson is a good politician and ran a successful campaign, definitely. She caught the wave at a prescient time in Scottish politics, but I suspect she may have eased the way for a Labour return in Scotland. Whether she can save the English tory party, though, I doubt.