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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/06/2017 21:03

As the dust begins to settle after the drama of a result no one really thought would happen though many hoped, we start to wonder what else will happen.

Initially it looked like the best possible result. The trouble is May has decided true to form to be a pain in the backside and not know when to quit. Her trade mark management style to crash forward in a straight through obstacles, taking everything that gets in her way in the process, rather than taking the more sensible and less hazardous route. She has had a nasty habit of come hurdling to an abrupt and painful messy end as she hits an inpenatrable brick wall of law or circumstance.

The idea that she can be moderated in any way is ridiculous, especially if Nick and Fiona survive.

We now have a situation with a minority government and a prime minister with a manifesto full of controversial proposals that will largely be consigned to the bin out of fear of defeat. Her ambitions over human rights are not in the manifesto so an embolden House of Lords will just throw it out without fear – because constitutionally the Salisbury convention only applies to majority governments. She has become a lame duck.

The trouble is that this is a parliament that needs to pass measures because of Brexit. May’s ability to deal with the Great Repeal Act in particular is going to be next to impossible. Certainly with the time already wasted.

May’s insistence that nothing has changed and its business as usual merely adds insult to injury and makes the whole situation worse. It sets her up to fail at some point, but that could well be after she has single handedly lead the country to economic and social disaster. Her lack of understanding of this just shows her up as the poor one trick politician without real leadership skills and vision. It marks her arrogance and lack of respect for those who are her bosses.

She could have acknowledged that the election result was a wholesale rejection of her vision for Brexit and reached out to other parties for a consensus over Brexit she decided to go rushing in bed with the hardline right DUP.

We now have a situation where her loose agreement with the DUP to prop up her government could be in breach of the Good Friday Agreement, further risking instability in that part of the union. It is not only fool hardy, its reckless. Not only that, without a formal agreement in the form of a coalition, such support means the she can not rely on the back up of the Salisbury Convention.

This is also done without irony after vilifying Corbyn for his association with terrorists. It shows a total disregard for the colleagues who the DUP regard as an ‘abomination’ for being gay, especially Ruth Davidson who basically saved her political neck. She really is a political prisoner to their whims and demands. This arrangement with the one that John Major avoided even when he struggled with a minority government because of the problems it would cause. Of course, if you were cynical you might well argue that May wants to break the GFA.

The rest of the party will cowardly let her lurch from crisis to crisis because the like the spine to rid themselves of the problem. Political crisis which involve NI are particularly difficult and particularly risky. May risks constitutional crisis there, with the House of Lords, over our WTO status, with Human Rights of EU and British nationals, a possible no confidence vote and with EU negotiations. That’s just the big ones we can forsee now. Yet she sees herself as the champion of stability in this midst of it all with a staggering lack of self-awareness or brazen disregard. Its like how the GOP tolerate Trump for their Christian agenda, the Hard Brexiteers will tolerate May to get Brexit through in any way they can; though this now opens it up to being even more chaotic unless the liberals stand up to the ever increasing suicide of it. The reality is that the chances of her being able to persuade both the liberal and right wings to agree to the same plan is slim.

The chances of the house of cards simply collapsing and us left with another election are huge.

There is hope. More than a landslide would have brought, but this path is fraught with pitfalls, it is difficult to see May doing anything but charging headlong over a cliff and missing the best way out of this mess. David Davis has admitted that there is now no longer a mandate for hard Brexit and we will need to stay in the Single Market and Customs Union and Greg Clark is summoning business to support the course. There are calls from Sarah Wollaston, Heidi Allen and Yvette Cooper for a cross party approach to key issues. This of course is the last thing that the Wing Nuts – and May - will allow willingly.

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BigChocFrenzy · 10/06/2017 22:39

Bojo charms Tory party members and voters alike.
A great vote-winner.
MPs - because they know him too well - nowhere near as impressed, but they would want the best votewinner, to retain their seats

As mayor - and I suspect would be if PM - he was hands off, leaving the real work to the professionals, while he swung around, charming & amusing the fans, while doing v little.
That would actually be ok if Brexit was left to the professionals, once set on an EEA / EFTA course
and he just used his charm at the end to win over most people

He usually has a pretty good sense of self-preservation, so he would be v reluctant to take the poisoned chalice of Brexit negotiations - unless he agrees in advance with the powerbrokers that only EEA / EFTA is on the table.
He probably couldn't resist a reasonable chance to be remembered as the one who pulled the national and Tory chesnuts out of the fire.

flippinada · 10/06/2017 22:42

I am so glad you all disliked Isabelle Oakeshott as much as I did. Horrible, sneering supercilious woman who was very quick with the smart arsed comments but said nothing of substance.

Shami Chakrabati looked like she didn't want to be there, seemed hugely uncomfortable and very brittle performance.

Chris Grayling, again seemed like he'd rather be anywhere else. Almost felt sorry for him. Almost.

Alastair Campbell on good form, utterly unflappable, but then he thrives on this type of thing, doesn't he?

Armando Ianucci made some thoughtful points.

I also found myself wondering how they select the audience. There were a couple of complete barmpots.

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 22:43

Richard Burgon‏ @RichardBurgon
In last 3 days, 150,000 people have joined Labour. We now have 800,000 members. Great news! Let's make it a million!

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flippinada · 10/06/2017 22:44

Christ, Gove as PM. I can hear the sibilant hiss of delight...

TheElementsSong · 10/06/2017 22:45

Somebody should post the JRM picture on the Brexit Arms, it is exactly in line with the lines of reasoning being discussed.

HashiAsLarry · 10/06/2017 22:49

@davidallengreen
He would not do this, of course, but Boris certainly has the chutzpah and lack of principle to do a complete reverse-ferret on Brexit.

annandale · 10/06/2017 22:52

I must say, when you start thinking 'Boris? Gove? Hunt? Rees-Mogg? Rudd?' you remember all of a sudden why May seemed a good thing last year.

woman12345 · 10/06/2017 22:52

DUP:
Earlier this year the former Lord Mayor of Belfast, Sammy Wilson - equated Sinn Fein with Isis, and he has been accused of condoning calls for ethnic cleansing when he voiced approval for a a call for Catholics to be "expelled, nullified, or interned
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/10/dup-mps-now-hold-balance-power/

Shocks me that this crew hold elected office anywhere.

squoosh · 10/06/2017 22:52

I could not stand Pob the Knob as PM. Making a simpering wet lipped victory speech outside No 10 with the awful Sarah Vine standing adoringly by his side oozing with Daily Mail smug.

squoosh · 10/06/2017 22:55

when you start thinking 'Boris? Gove? Hunt? Rees-Mogg? Rudd?'

Rudd is the only one I could vaguely stomach. Boris, if someone put an ouzi to my head. The other two, nope.

citroenpresse · 10/06/2017 22:56

You only have to think Leadsom. Watching Norman Tebbit praise her and how little Andrea may not have much experience, but there'd be wise old hands to guide her was truly one of the most revolting post referendum experiences ever.

flippinada · 10/06/2017 23:00

Oh yes, no doubt Lady MacGove will be sharpening her poisoned pencils in anticipation.

BestIsWest · 10/06/2017 23:00

I agree that it was the Labour manifesto that swung things - the day it was 'leaked' you could feel things change. (That and the fox hunting, th death tax and the One show interviews).

But there is a huge adoration among the young for'Jezza'. DS thinks he can do no wrong and he was a Lib-Dem supporter at the start if the campaign.

mathanxiety · 10/06/2017 23:01

There is a war for the Tory party and Brexit ideology going on.

In all of this, we need to remember that what transpires will be what the EU desires, not what the UK demands or negotiates for.

There will be a strong argument within the EU not to let the UK have pretty much all the benefits of membership without the costs - after all, what deterrent would that provide to any other states considering exiting?

My guess is the EU will only envisage 'in in every respect' or 'out in every respect' as options, with cherry picking out of the question.

(I agree with Julia Hartley-Brewer's analysis linked upthread).

Sostenueto · 10/06/2017 23:05

What is up with mumsnet tonight unable to post for last half hour?!

Sostenueto · 10/06/2017 23:06

Gove = teachers walking out en masse!

citroenpresse · 10/06/2017 23:08

Anyone got any views on this? The FT decoded the Brexit Guidelines. ig.ft.com/eu-brexit-guidelines-annotated/?mhq5j=e3

Sostenueto · 10/06/2017 23:09

I think its all a smokescreen with the papers saying who is going to run for PM. I'm sure the electorate wouldn't stomach yet another unelected PM?

NancyWake · 10/06/2017 23:11

Has this been posted?

Craig Oliver's piece in on Nick and Fi in the DM it's QI.

But I was worried about Nick Timothy being determined to abandon the centre ground. With the help of Lynton Crosby, David Cameron delivered a strategy that was capable of uniting traditional shire Tories with the more liberal-minded groups.

Their plan worked better than they dared dream – blindsiding the media and the Liberal Democrats, despite carrying it out in plain sight.

During the 2015 campaign we served up endless photo opportunities having taken the media on dozens of trips to LibDem marginals – yet no one seemed to grasp that it was delivering, and instead presented us with evidence that supposedly proved, ‘You can’t win!’

That approach was abandoned by Theresa May on taking power in the wake of the EU referendum...

Her team had another supposedly cunning plan, calculating that the thick end of four million Ukip votes were up for grabs now the party had served its only purpose – a vote for Brexit.

The logic went like this: most of those voters originally supported Labour; they tended to be socially conservative and from the North of England, horrified by Jeremy Corbyn’s metropolitan, firebrand socialism that appeared to care more about Venezuela than issues close to their heart.

The idea intoxicated many and an entire Election campaign was built on it.

Team May followed the plan with a swagger in their hips – even launching their manifesto in Halifax, a clear declaration that they could win big in traditional Labour areas.

By any standards the plan failed after expectations had been allowed to run wild, predicting a triple-digit majority.

Labour were returned in Halifax – increasing their vote share by 12.8 per cent.

It’s now clear resources were squandered chasing the pipe dream of winning over Ukip voters in Labour seats.

All of this matters. People who should have known better allowed Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill to wield real influence and power.

Many knew what they were like but said the ends justified the means. They didn’t.

But far more important than that, the Conservative party went forward under David Cameron’s modernisation agenda – ultimately winning an overall majority for the first time in 18 years. It went backwards under Theresa May’s Ukip-focused agenda.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4592064/Craig-Oliver-s-ruthless-enforcers.html

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 23:14

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/10/election-nicky-morgan-theresa-hard-brexit?CMP=share_btn_tw
Drop hard Brexit plans, demand MPs
May’s loss of authority means she might have to compromise on her negotiating stance with the EU

The Observer has learned that May took the fateful decision to call the election having been urged to do so by commission president Jean-Claude Juncker.

!!!!!!

Hahahah. O.M.G.

It is understood that Juncker had advised May to call an early general election as a result of his concerns that the 17-seat majority she had inherited from David Cameron would not be enough during the pinch points of the negotiations, including over the issue of the UK’s divorce bill, estimated to be as much as €100bn.

“During bilaterals, in the margins of summits, Juncker repeatedly told her he thought she should do it,” one EU source said. A second European diplomat added: “People don’t understand. We want a deal more than anyone. We are professionals, we have a mandate to get a deal and we want to be successful in that.”

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BigChocFrenzy · 10/06/2017 23:15

citroen That interview goes on the list of all time emetics

HashiAsLarry · 10/06/2017 23:15

I'm not sure Julia Hartley brewer has it right over Seb Dance math
It's us who make it one or the other by red lining fom.
I purposely went back to labour's manifesto after those tweets to see how explicit it is. It's not, no numbers on purpose (at least there was honesty there) and a commitment that fom would end (but not when or how). But we've mentioned this before, that could be a question of spin. It could also mean greater in country control using powers we have already but the masses didn't know/care about. Stealth fom could happen. So eea isn't off the table there.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/06/2017 23:19

Oh red What have you done, posting that about Juncker ! Grin

On that quite mad thread started by raven, ably (not) assisted by surfer, complaining about the petition against the DUP misalliance ... because no one should ever complain or protest against anything the right do ...

they have already savagely blamed NS for nagging poor May into calling a GE
and then they blamed everyone who voted for Labour ...
Don't tell them about Juncker ! Grin

TheElementsSong · 10/06/2017 23:21

What mad thread? Sounds a laugh - let me guess, can be completely summed up as "It's everybody else's fault"?