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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/06/2017 21:03

As the dust begins to settle after the drama of a result no one really thought would happen though many hoped, we start to wonder what else will happen.

Initially it looked like the best possible result. The trouble is May has decided true to form to be a pain in the backside and not know when to quit. Her trade mark management style to crash forward in a straight through obstacles, taking everything that gets in her way in the process, rather than taking the more sensible and less hazardous route. She has had a nasty habit of come hurdling to an abrupt and painful messy end as she hits an inpenatrable brick wall of law or circumstance.

The idea that she can be moderated in any way is ridiculous, especially if Nick and Fiona survive.

We now have a situation with a minority government and a prime minister with a manifesto full of controversial proposals that will largely be consigned to the bin out of fear of defeat. Her ambitions over human rights are not in the manifesto so an embolden House of Lords will just throw it out without fear – because constitutionally the Salisbury convention only applies to majority governments. She has become a lame duck.

The trouble is that this is a parliament that needs to pass measures because of Brexit. May’s ability to deal with the Great Repeal Act in particular is going to be next to impossible. Certainly with the time already wasted.

May’s insistence that nothing has changed and its business as usual merely adds insult to injury and makes the whole situation worse. It sets her up to fail at some point, but that could well be after she has single handedly lead the country to economic and social disaster. Her lack of understanding of this just shows her up as the poor one trick politician without real leadership skills and vision. It marks her arrogance and lack of respect for those who are her bosses.

She could have acknowledged that the election result was a wholesale rejection of her vision for Brexit and reached out to other parties for a consensus over Brexit she decided to go rushing in bed with the hardline right DUP.

We now have a situation where her loose agreement with the DUP to prop up her government could be in breach of the Good Friday Agreement, further risking instability in that part of the union. It is not only fool hardy, its reckless. Not only that, without a formal agreement in the form of a coalition, such support means the she can not rely on the back up of the Salisbury Convention.

This is also done without irony after vilifying Corbyn for his association with terrorists. It shows a total disregard for the colleagues who the DUP regard as an ‘abomination’ for being gay, especially Ruth Davidson who basically saved her political neck. She really is a political prisoner to their whims and demands. This arrangement with the one that John Major avoided even when he struggled with a minority government because of the problems it would cause. Of course, if you were cynical you might well argue that May wants to break the GFA.

The rest of the party will cowardly let her lurch from crisis to crisis because the like the spine to rid themselves of the problem. Political crisis which involve NI are particularly difficult and particularly risky. May risks constitutional crisis there, with the House of Lords, over our WTO status, with Human Rights of EU and British nationals, a possible no confidence vote and with EU negotiations. That’s just the big ones we can forsee now. Yet she sees herself as the champion of stability in this midst of it all with a staggering lack of self-awareness or brazen disregard. Its like how the GOP tolerate Trump for their Christian agenda, the Hard Brexiteers will tolerate May to get Brexit through in any way they can; though this now opens it up to being even more chaotic unless the liberals stand up to the ever increasing suicide of it. The reality is that the chances of her being able to persuade both the liberal and right wings to agree to the same plan is slim.

The chances of the house of cards simply collapsing and us left with another election are huge.

There is hope. More than a landslide would have brought, but this path is fraught with pitfalls, it is difficult to see May doing anything but charging headlong over a cliff and missing the best way out of this mess. David Davis has admitted that there is now no longer a mandate for hard Brexit and we will need to stay in the Single Market and Customs Union and Greg Clark is summoning business to support the course. There are calls from Sarah Wollaston, Heidi Allen and Yvette Cooper for a cross party approach to key issues. This of course is the last thing that the Wing Nuts – and May - will allow willingly.

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Thread gallery
33
flippinada · 10/06/2017 22:06

Well he's definitely not stupid @Sostenuto but I don't believe anyone with any political nous in the Conservative Party wants the top job now. It's rapidly developing into something of a poisoned chalice.

OlennasWimple · 10/06/2017 22:11

Sos - the Queen is technically in charge, and all legislation is subject to her consent. She could refuse permission to form a government, but in practice the situation is carefully managed so that the only person who gets to ask the question is the person to whom she will consent

TatianaLarina · 10/06/2017 22:11

I don't think Boris cares about poison or chalices so long as he has attention.

I can imagine what he was like as a child.

woman12345 · 10/06/2017 22:12

Corbyn is just the left-wing version of unicorn populism

Or socialism Grin

but the method of engagement is definitely contemporary
But strangely 'retro' with the focus on mass meetings and rallies, posted on Facebook, as they used to write up rallies in pamphlets and distribute to activists.

It's not the type of politics I expected or particularly wanted to see in Britain, but we can see how people have been forced to extremes.

When there are homeless young people sitting in doorways of British city centres, the red cross being called to deal with humanitarian disasters in British hospitals and all the other inequities in this country, Brexit is utterly irrelevant.

I hope and believe it will be kicked into the long grass, while we tackle what is really going on in Britain. If social injustices had been tackled properly, there would have been no hunger for the fake justice of 'brexit'.

Who makes the money that keeps the whole country going? London. What colour is London? Red. I don't really think there's a choice.

However gaining a majority could be a big problem for JC, so it's probably an academic concern.

Trouble is, May has revealed more about brexit, the real tory party and now the DUP through that election campaign. The tories who have almost no grass roots party left, will find it pretty sticky trying to persuade anyone to trust them again.

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 22:13

Sam Coates Times‏ @SamCoatesTimes
Tory member of government: "Boris will never ever be PM. If he tries to go for it now he will never be forgiven. MPs don't want him"
Here's their logic: no MP wants an election; covert leadership campaigning destabilises already v weak May and might trigger one.

Tim Shipman‏****@ShippersUnbound
Five cabinet ministers have urged Boris to oust May. See Sunday Times

Tim Shipman‏****@ShippersUnbound
Boris has decided to prop up May but his allies believe there will be a contest this year. Selling him as a liberal, popular, Brexiteer

Tim Shipman‏****@ShippersUnbound

Philip Hammond's support for May is conditional on her putting jobs and business first in Brexit deal. See Sunday Times

Tim Shipman‏****@ShippersUnbound
YouGov/Sunday Times
For the first time ever Corbyn has matched May as "best PM":
May 39%
Corbyn 39%

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woman12345 · 10/06/2017 22:16

I do hope the tories stay in power quite a bit longer, I love a good tory blood bath.Grin And it saves a lot of time and money for the opposition in the long run.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/06/2017 22:16

(Times paywall - Election Analysis )* Youth vote and Brexit tipped the scales*

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/youth-vote-and-brexit-tipped-the-scales-8pzbbdj02

"So what were the factors that led to so unexpected an outcome?

The youth vote
Dismissed by some pollsters as “snowflake” voters who would melt away on the day,
Britons aged 18 to 24 proved to be a significant factor in the election.

Early and unverified estimates suggest that turnout in this age group could have been as high as 72 per cent;
far greater than in 2015, when only 43 per voted,
and last June, when 64 per cent voted in the EU referendum."

"constituencies with the highest proportion of students gave Labour a 14-point rise in the vote share on average,

with the Conservatives gaining only 1.5 points in the same seats."

"The Brexit effect
Despite attempts by the Conservatives to frame the election as a mandate for Mrs May’s Brexit plan,
Labour Leave voters failed to back the Tories,
while there is some evidence that Remain voters turned against the Tories in key seats such as Bath and Twickenham."

“The changing political geography reflects the fact that this was a Brexit election.

"Even though there was little clear division and debate over Brexit party policy,
in this election the voters have divided themselves between the two main parties
less on the traditional class politics of redistribution
and more on the cultural politics of immigration and Brexit.”

Ukip’s Labour tendency
"In early May two thirds of former Ukip voters said they intended to vote for the Conservatives.
In the final polls it was more like two fifths."

Labour did better than expected in marginal seats
Many pollsters expected the “Corbyn effect” to result in Labour piling up votes in safe seats, particularly London, while under-performing in marginals.

It didn’t turn out that way.

...In the seats that mattered, however, Labour did much better"

"the Tories did better in predominantly working class areas"

"the north-south divide had been partly replaced by working class areas becoming more Conservative and middle-class professional areas becoming more Labour."

Swings and roundabouts
Turnout was 68.7 per cent,
the highest since 1992 when 77.7 per cent voted.

HashiAsLarry · 10/06/2017 22:17

Bojo isn't as stupid as the facade, but he's also not the genius he is sometimes portrayed as.

In his time as Mayor, he was relatively hands off. His success largely being down to an astute sense of who to place in charge of various departments plus a reliance on advisors. As mayor though he wasn't confined to a set of MPs or party members and in number 10 could fall foul of a timothy/hill issue.

The difference with Bojo and May is possibly as simple as losing experience with TM.

flippinada · 10/06/2017 22:19

Love David Schneider.

Sorry, I know it's going back a bit but did anyone watch QT last night? Reminded me why I don't watch anymore, bad for the blood pressure.

whatwouldrondo · 10/06/2017 22:21

BigChoc *
The visionary 1945 Labour govt, which created the modern welfare state, nhs etc, was elected by a public determined to make "a land fit for heroes" (which they hadn't received as promised after Ww1)
The country was in ruins, in by far the deepest ever debt as a % of GDP

There was NO money
But they went ahead anyway
They had courage and vision*

Hard to argue they had principles though when they resisted independence movements across the world in order to continue exploiting their markets so that they could prop up the economy. Creating a land fit for heroes as long as they were British and white.....

BigChocFrenzy · 10/06/2017 22:22

Boris bids to be PM:
Johnson team circles wounded Theresa May as she's forced to sacrifice key aides to keep her job as Tory leader

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4592016/Boris-set-launch-bid-PM-clings-on.html

"Boris Johnson is preparing a new bid to become Prime Minister as Theresa May’s grip on No 10 becomes increasingly fragile.

A close ally of the Foreign Secretary said last night it was ‘go-go-go’ for Mr Johnson’s leadership push, adding:
‘We need Bojo. We need a Brexiteer. We need somebody who can talk and connect with people like Jeremy Corbyn does. We need someone who can make Britain believe in itself again.’
Mr Johnson’s supporters are being careful to say that he will not take any action while Mrs May remains in No 10 – but the fact that his allies are actively briefing about his virtues will be seen in Downing Street as destabilising."

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 22:24

Sam Coates Times‏ @SamCoatesTimes
I suspect that Boris wants to, shall we say, have his cake and eat it re leadership ambitions

Tom Newton Dunn‏ @tnewtondunn
Boris has shelved any leadership bid, for now, as The Sun reported in today's paper @skynewsniall

Sam Coates Times‏ @SamCoatesTimes

"Shelved" AKA "putting on hold for now" AKA "just seeing what people say" AKA not ruling out forever...

It won't be Boris. Sure of it.

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squoosh · 10/06/2017 22:25

I agree that Boris' genius is often overstated. He's obviously bright and very articulate but if he wasn't a posh boy with a posh accent his 'act' wouldn't be half so revered. He's clearly not a details man or someone who enjoys the hard slog. He likes to pop up, give a speech, write a column, entertain people with his choice of obscure vocab, but I doubt he'd enjoy the dull slog that being a PM must surely involve. However he no doubt craves the prestige and his place in the history books.

woman12345 · 10/06/2017 22:26

It won't be Boris. Sure of it .Gove.

squoosh · 10/06/2017 22:27

Sorry, I know it's going back a bit but did anyone watch QT last night? Reminded me why I don't watch anymore, bad for the blood pressure.

Isabel Oakeshott and her grimacing and sneering. UGH.

TheElementsSong · 10/06/2017 22:27

The Brexit Arms is a place of sublime discourse right now.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/06/2017 22:28

ron I agree. I was only referring to their brilliant domestic policy - their foreign policy remained horrendously imperialist, probably little different to what Churchill would have done in practice.
The 1945 govt was a welfare state at home, imperialist abroad (however, the British wc loved the empire nearly as much as the toffs did. So, they were doing wheat there voters wanted)

They - and the following Tory govt - squandered all the Marshall Aid on dreams of imperialist grandeur - i.e. armed forces to protect a worldwide empire - while Germany & France used their (smaller) Marshall Aid to rebuild their economies

citroenpresse · 10/06/2017 22:29

flippinada a bit but too shouty and also tried to watch Newsnight and when the thoroughly overexcited Political Editor started shouting about the size of Tony Blair's house and then Peter Mandelson's house AND NO LABOUR POSTER I switched that off too

HashiAsLarry · 10/06/2017 22:29

It won't be Boris. Sure of it .Gove
I'd rather have bojo.
I'm very sure you can't make me want gove. Though hunt would give me some pause for thought.

citroenpresse · 10/06/2017 22:29

oops Political Editor from the Daily Mail got overexcited. Not Emily.

TatianaLarina · 10/06/2017 22:31

Or socialism Grin

Well yes, but realistic, grounded socialism is possible - France and Germany manage it.

Eeeeeowwwfftz · 10/06/2017 22:32

Pace Graun: Johnson’s spokesman said: “The foreign secretary is 100% supporting the prime minister and working with her to get the best deal for Britain.”

Uh oh.

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 22:33

For some, there is no escape from their world of self delusion.

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit
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HashiAsLarry · 10/06/2017 22:35

Also a tacit vote to reintroduce the slave trade and child labour no doubt

Bearbehind · 10/06/2017 22:37

There's no way BJ want to be PM now.

He's too clever.

That would involve backing down on Leave being the answer to all our prayers.

If he did have to run, someone like Gove will run in with a letter from mummy, saying ickle Boris needs to be excused, like they did last time.