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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/06/2017 21:03

As the dust begins to settle after the drama of a result no one really thought would happen though many hoped, we start to wonder what else will happen.

Initially it looked like the best possible result. The trouble is May has decided true to form to be a pain in the backside and not know when to quit. Her trade mark management style to crash forward in a straight through obstacles, taking everything that gets in her way in the process, rather than taking the more sensible and less hazardous route. She has had a nasty habit of come hurdling to an abrupt and painful messy end as she hits an inpenatrable brick wall of law or circumstance.

The idea that she can be moderated in any way is ridiculous, especially if Nick and Fiona survive.

We now have a situation with a minority government and a prime minister with a manifesto full of controversial proposals that will largely be consigned to the bin out of fear of defeat. Her ambitions over human rights are not in the manifesto so an embolden House of Lords will just throw it out without fear – because constitutionally the Salisbury convention only applies to majority governments. She has become a lame duck.

The trouble is that this is a parliament that needs to pass measures because of Brexit. May’s ability to deal with the Great Repeal Act in particular is going to be next to impossible. Certainly with the time already wasted.

May’s insistence that nothing has changed and its business as usual merely adds insult to injury and makes the whole situation worse. It sets her up to fail at some point, but that could well be after she has single handedly lead the country to economic and social disaster. Her lack of understanding of this just shows her up as the poor one trick politician without real leadership skills and vision. It marks her arrogance and lack of respect for those who are her bosses.

She could have acknowledged that the election result was a wholesale rejection of her vision for Brexit and reached out to other parties for a consensus over Brexit she decided to go rushing in bed with the hardline right DUP.

We now have a situation where her loose agreement with the DUP to prop up her government could be in breach of the Good Friday Agreement, further risking instability in that part of the union. It is not only fool hardy, its reckless. Not only that, without a formal agreement in the form of a coalition, such support means the she can not rely on the back up of the Salisbury Convention.

This is also done without irony after vilifying Corbyn for his association with terrorists. It shows a total disregard for the colleagues who the DUP regard as an ‘abomination’ for being gay, especially Ruth Davidson who basically saved her political neck. She really is a political prisoner to their whims and demands. This arrangement with the one that John Major avoided even when he struggled with a minority government because of the problems it would cause. Of course, if you were cynical you might well argue that May wants to break the GFA.

The rest of the party will cowardly let her lurch from crisis to crisis because the like the spine to rid themselves of the problem. Political crisis which involve NI are particularly difficult and particularly risky. May risks constitutional crisis there, with the House of Lords, over our WTO status, with Human Rights of EU and British nationals, a possible no confidence vote and with EU negotiations. That’s just the big ones we can forsee now. Yet she sees herself as the champion of stability in this midst of it all with a staggering lack of self-awareness or brazen disregard. Its like how the GOP tolerate Trump for their Christian agenda, the Hard Brexiteers will tolerate May to get Brexit through in any way they can; though this now opens it up to being even more chaotic unless the liberals stand up to the ever increasing suicide of it. The reality is that the chances of her being able to persuade both the liberal and right wings to agree to the same plan is slim.

The chances of the house of cards simply collapsing and us left with another election are huge.

There is hope. More than a landslide would have brought, but this path is fraught with pitfalls, it is difficult to see May doing anything but charging headlong over a cliff and missing the best way out of this mess. David Davis has admitted that there is now no longer a mandate for hard Brexit and we will need to stay in the Single Market and Customs Union and Greg Clark is summoning business to support the course. There are calls from Sarah Wollaston, Heidi Allen and Yvette Cooper for a cross party approach to key issues. This of course is the last thing that the Wing Nuts – and May - will allow willingly.

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Thread gallery
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Sostenueto · 10/06/2017 20:43

So Red a new PM by the back door so to speak? A bit like try before you buy too I suppose.

Sostenueto · 10/06/2017 20:45

This thread is fabulous! I am a bit intimidated about posting because I'm not that educated especially politically, but I find there are lots on here that I already posted on other threads so feel a bit more confident now thanks to you allx

PinkPeppers · 10/06/2017 20:49

If there is a need, in normal times, to have deputy prime minister, who was the deputy prime minsister until now?? Confused

Sostenueto · 10/06/2017 20:54

I don't think there is one, I don't really know.

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 20:56

You don't need to be educated. Just interested. The point is to learn and to ask questions if you don't understand things.

I think everyone is learning new things even those who know more political stuff.

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Eeeeeowwwfftz · 10/06/2017 20:58

It's not like this has happened before, so we're all pretty much making it up as we go along.

Or at least I am.

OlennasWimple · 10/06/2017 21:02

We are in fairly unchartered territory right now, so no one know what is going on!

Deputy Prime Minister isn't a permanent or constitutional role in the UK, so sometimes we have one (Tony Blair had John Prescott for party political reasons; David Cameron had Nick Clegg for coalition reasons), but often we don't

IrenetheQuaint · 10/06/2017 21:03

Sometimes there is a deputy prime minister and sometimes there isn't. Nick Clegg was Cameron's deputy under the coalition, but since then there hasn't been one.

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 21:06

Westmonster‏ @WestmonsterUK
Meet Theresa May's new Chief of Staff: Remainer who smeared @Nigel_Farage as a "racist" and a "bigot".

Links to story I refuse to click on. But title says its an horrendous appointment.

Got to be doing something right, if its pissed off this lot. As David Aaronovitch says, its:

David Aaronovitch‏*@DAaronovitch*

A clever attempt to make ordinary Brits warm to Theresa May.

This is a thread from a guy who was a local journalist in Croydon, who quit over click bait and got quite a good following as an independent journalist after highlighting the democratic problems with the decline of the local press.

Gareth Davies‏*@Gareth*_Davies09

A few thoughts on the smirking about Barwell being made chief of staff despite losing his seat.

In 2014, Labour retook Croydon Council for the first time in eight years. Gavin led the Conservatives ultimately unsuccessful campaign. He took some flak from within the local party at the time, and resolved to learn those lessons. And he would need to. Labour had made big gains in Croydon Central & UKIP was also a threat. The result put him on notice that his job was under serious threat.

So, in October 2014, Barwell launched his election campaign - eight months before the country went to the polls. He held a glitzy launch event that ended with a bombastic speech from Boris Johnson, a good friend and ally.

Honestly, I doubt any constituency MP (he wasn't on the front bench at the time) has ever held an event like it. It's not exaggeration to say he then spent the next eight months relentlessly campaigning to be reelected. We tend to scoff when MPs say they work hard but in Barwell's case it's dead true. With a wife and three young sons it wasn't easy.

In fact we at @croydonad did scoff at the sheer number of campaigns he launched in the months before the election
www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-30698267/gavin-barwell-and-croydon-advertiser-on-mp-campaign

He'd been elected in 2010 after comfortably beating his (former) friend Andrew Pelling, who ran as an independent. But in 2015, he faced a challenge from an organised Labour candidate, with lots of troops on the ground & backing of the council. In the end he won by just 165 votes. Sometimes local results are about the national picture, but he'd retained his seat... By dedicating himself for eight months to achieving it. Had he run a normal campaign, he would have lost, no question.

Then he was approached to write a book about it. It wasn't his idea and was only of interest to local reporters and political geeks. His rise through the party has been steady if not spectacular, but it's clear he was valued by Cameron and then by May. And when he made it onto the front bench, we never heard any credible suggestion that he had lost focus on local matters. When May called a snap election, Barwell must have feared the worst. Polls were good for her but Corbyn was predicted to do well in London. If anything he may feel let down by the party. The constituency didn't receive anything like the no. of visits as it did in 2015. Despite being the third (off the top of my head) most marginal seat in the country, there was no sign of Theresa May (or anyone else)

If the party had given up on his seat, Barwell didn't. But he lost, and lost comfortably. Should that reflect badly on him? I'd say no. Even the people glad to see the back of him (a lot do with his manner on Twitter) would admit he was a dedicated MP with a good local record. And Google the guy - the biggest 'scandal' he's been involved in is not knowing how internet advertising works.
RTB: Here's the story for you

May now has a chief of staff who actively seeks the views of opposing sides and is about as liberal minded a Conservative as you'll find. So while easy to scoff at him for losing his seat, I actually feel slightly more reassured knowing May's got him as a level-headed adviser. Whether he'll have the job for more than a few weeks is another matter.

emily m‏*@maitlis*
Why did we have Farage on #Newsnight? Here's why:
1) He's probably been more influential in bringing about brexit than any other politician in the world.
2) At this point many are asking if brexit - as he envisaged it- will still happen. And if not whether he will fight it.
3) if he chooses to fight it through UKIP we may see a resurgence of that party that once gained a considerable proportion of the U.K. Vote
4) so it seems rather churlish to ignore a politician who a)might yet reenter UK politics or b) might make life hard for whoever leads Tories
5) and his answers on tonight's #Newsnight were so extraordinary @simonschamama predicted they'd be from page @MailOnline tomorrow
6) you can catch up on @BBCNewsnight @BBCiPlayer if you missed him. Our job is not to favour the popular it is to ask the critical questions

Vince Cable‏ @vincecable

@TheresaMayPM should not resign. She won. And she made this bed of nails. She should lie on it. #GE2017 #Brexit

David Allen Green‏*@davidallengreen*
Phew.

Think how narrowly we missed a Coalition of Chaos involving those with unsavoury links to Northern Irish extremism.

Lucky us.

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woman12345 · 10/06/2017 21:06

^Hundreds descend on Parliament to protest Theresa May's DUP deal
Placards reading 'Pray DUP away' and emblazoned with pro-Corbyn slogans waved outside Downing Street^
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/protest-parliament-theresa-may-conservatives-dup-deal-hung-parliament-minority-government-a7783796.html
Nice weather for it.Smile

Hopefully the tories will split into remainy nice-ish Ken Clarke tories and the others can have David Davis, farage and foster as their leaders.

CaptainBrickbeard · 10/06/2017 21:07

I am learning a lot from these threads. They are a breath of fresh air!

I am worried about what is in this for the DUP. What are they likely to ask for, I wonder?

BigChocFrenzy · 10/06/2017 21:09

There has been often, but not always been a DPM since Whitelaw

The PM appoints them, but normally someone acceptable to the party, usually reaching the parts the PM does not reach as well.
e.g. remember Two Jags Prescott, represented Old Labour, as Blair's DPM
and WillieW the One Nation Tories to compensate for Maggie's Tory spivs

May didn't appoint one - typical of PMs who feel insecure and / or too power mad to delegate any power permanently to one person.
When she went on holiday, she rotated the position of stand-in. Bojo had it part of the time < shudders >

OlennasWimple · 10/06/2017 21:12

Money, Captain

BigChocFrenzy · 10/06/2017 21:16

The DUP's demands will naturally be all about NI - unlikely to be sufficiently cheeky to inferior in rUK

So:

  • Lotsa money for NI - farmers, public services, extravagant infrastructure AGAIN

  • No interference in their nasty theocracy; protection for NI from the outside world - bringing in equal marriage rights, teaching of evolution, no relaxing abortion etc

  • No hard border for Brexit; no moving the customs border to be between the islands of Ireland and mainland Britain
    BUT enough MPs from other parties on this issue would outvote them, if this were part of a Brexit deal.
    So they may not have a guarantee on this, or May's replace,ent may ignore it when necessary

Sostenueto · 10/06/2017 21:17

The vision of Boris as PM is a bit cringe worthy!

woman12345 · 10/06/2017 21:17

I agree with Cable, May and the tories broke it, they fix it, and hopefully destroy themselves in the process.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-general-election-hung-parliament-end-of-hard-a7781006.html
^No matter who forms a government this is the end of hard Brexit
Membership of the single market and customs union, ruled out by May, are now back on the agenda^
Smile I think we just won.

Sostenueto · 10/06/2017 21:20

What happens if JC gets his act together with the other minorities and writes an alternative Queens speech? Is it possible for anyone to stop the Tories from being in government?

TatianaLarina · 10/06/2017 21:22

Even a you scratch my back confidence and supply deal with the DUP is a lamentably bad idea for the British government.

Aside from the DUP paramilitary links there's also the thorny and unresolved isssue of British security services collusion with loyalist paramilitaries in the Troubles.

You may recall Cameron apologised in 2012 for the murder of Pat Finucane in an effort to avoid a public enquiry - upheld by a Belfast court in 2015 I think. But many believed there should have been a full independent enquiry into collusion based in the findings of the Stevens enquiry. I entirely agree.

Have the government really thought through the can of worms they are opening? I'm all for these worms to come out, but I think they may regret opening it.

Sostenueto · 10/06/2017 21:23

I'm afraid the whole Brexit thing is poison to any MP. Who would really want to do it? Impossible to please all. I did predict a few weeks before election that we may end up with another referendum if May was weakened in parliament and came back with no deal or a really bad deal. Any takers on that idea?

OlennasWimple · 10/06/2017 21:26

Sostenueto - the Queen gives permission for the prime minister to form a government (hence TM's hasty trip to the Palace on Friday).

Badders123 · 10/06/2017 21:27

As much as I loathe Boris he is pro Europe
His support of leave was a cynical ploy to enable him to satisfy the tory right wing and challenge Cameron after the referendum
His face the morning of the ref result!!! The only bright part of that day...
I think since June last year people have come to the realisation that there isn't a plan. There was never a plan. All the loons like farage have had decades to make plans, suggest new trade deals and make provisions for economic uncertainty.
But they didnt.
It is going to be so so complex. And most leavers are bears of very little brain.

citroenpresse · 10/06/2017 21:28

Sos Labour are definitely going to do an alternative Q speech but maybe not a new concept - Miliband did one too. Given the current instability of hung parliament with DUP arrangement, might take on greater significance. Labour will need to show changes to their front bench also. Corbyn's lack of PLP support is his biggest hurdle.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/06/2017 21:28

(Telegraph paywall, Christopher Booker)* *
I am astonished: the British voters might just have saved us from a crazy hard Brexit*
*
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/10/astonished-british-voters-might-just-have-saved-us-crazy-hard/

“This is yet another amazing tribute to the unconscious political genius of the British people.
They have somehow managed to steer between the Scylla of Corbyn’s suicidal economic illiteracy and the Charybdis of Mrs May’s hard Brexit.”

“She will only be able to govern with the support of 10 Northern Irish MPss^ who insist that we must keep a ‘frictionless border’ with Ireland and

the 13 Scottish Tories who, with Ruth Davidson, are equally insistent that we must somehow remain free to trade in the single market.

That is brilliant for the Union,
because both Northern Ireland and Scotland are crucial to her survival.

“With all the other parties also somehow committed to staying in the European market,
plus many of the less reckless Tories,
that means that
it will be extremely difficult for her to press on with her hard-Brexit, ‘walk away without a deal’ line.

I am now more optimistic about Britain’s future than I have been for a long time.”

" if we “walk away” without a deal – we would be faced with a horrendous range of new obstacles to our trade.

The real problem is nothing to do with tariffs.
What we have to worry about are those “non-tariff barriers” we would have made inevitablee^.

Trucks piling up at Dover and in Northern Ireland because they would face border controls and inspections.

Exclusion from the system that allows our airliners to fly freely out of UK air space.

Exclusion from supply chains that provide 59 per cent of components for our successful car industry.

Exclusion from many of the arrangements that have helped to make London the financial capital of the world. And much, much else.

It has been spooky how little of this has been openly explained and discussed, most notably in that dismally vapid election campaign.

But ever more heavyweight voices have been chipping in – among them the World Bank, the OECD and J P Morgan – to warn of the colossal risks we would be running if we pursued Mrs May’s hard Brexit – and, even more so, her threat to walk away without any agreement.

Yet now, with only eight days before those fateful negotiations begin, it is just possible that hard reality has the chance to break in on her hubristic dream.

The woman I have in Private Eye been calling “Mrs Me” has already had one very unpleasant collision with reality.

The “unconscious political genius of the British people” may have given us an opportunity to save our country from another reality that is far, far worse.

flippinada · 10/06/2017 21:29

Right. Am going to jump in now.

Some thoughts from a Scottish perspective (just my views, not speaking for all).

  • this was an unexpectedly bad result for the SNP. I posted elsewhere that I wasn't surprised they lost seats but was surprised by how much. NS is, I think, very rattled by this. The sabre rattling over Indyref 2 has backfired on them.
  • lots of marginal wins up here. One constituency in Fife won by just 2 votes.

I'm torn between being delighted at the bloody nose given to the mendacious May and worry about how it will all play out.

The Tories have done so, so much damage to this country in the space of 2 short years through their own arrogance and hubris.

Angry
RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 21:36

David Schneider‏*@davidschneider*

The Tories are right: the agreement with the DUP is not a coalition of chaos. It's a confidence and supply deal of chaos.

Snigger

Jeremy for PM‏*@jeremyforlab*

Heads of state are being briefed on Jeremy Corbyn. Foreign embassies are requesting meetings. They know he's the next Prime Minister.

I think some are getting a little carried away. For one, the next PM is likely to be sooner than a general election. And secondly, there may be an election if the government collapses but it might be in 5 years time too. Corbyn has to think of a successor too simply because he's 70.

This is Corbyn's mission:
Jeremy Corbyn on why and how Labour must rebuild the politics of hope

It was written in May 2016. Reading it back, it sounds a lot like the comments my old lecturer made in his book about the need to build faith and understanding in democracy and not take for granted that people will just get it. You need to sell democracy through positive propaganda.

When talking about the post-war era of politics Tony Benn said: “Democracy transferred power from the wallet to the ballot. What people couldn’t afford for themselves they could vote for instead”. Tony understood that it was democracy that unlocked the potential for socialist politics to deliver, and his generation did. It was especially the radical Labour government of 1945 that delivered so many of the social achievements of which we Labour members are so proud: the NHS, the welfare state, council housing, comprehensive education, institutions that were about the collective improvement of all.

This confidence that politics could change lives for the better was so powerful it endured, largely untouched, through successive Labour and Conservative governments in the 1950s, 60s and 70s.

and

This latter point was an abdication of political and economic responsibility. Instead of previous governments seeing full employment as a fundamental responsibility, the Thatcher government saw unemployment as a cause for individual blame. Norman Tebbit’s “get on your bike”; Peter Lilley’s “little list”; and John Major’s exhortation to “condemn a little more and understand a little less”, were all about diverting responsibility for social failure from government to individuals.

There was more to this than mere moralising too. The Conservative governments systematically dismantled public services and the tax base that underpinned them. Massive tax cuts, particularly for wealthy individuals and corporations meant worse public provision for all. And so the use of public provision – whether in housing, social security or transport – was deemed to be illustrative of a personal failure, as Thatcher said about anyone riding a bus over aged 25.

and

So rebuilding the politics of hope demands two things. Firstly, that we inspire people with a vision that fully uses the power of government to transform society to tackle the problems that people face and to fundamentally redistribute wealth and power, so that we live in a more equal society in which the economy functions for the good of all.

Secondly, we have to rebuild trust –that is what ‘straight-talking, honest politics’ is about. We will take on difficult debates, whether that’s over welfare or immigration, we will confront powerful interests and we will involve people –consulting widely on the proposals and the changes we plan to make.

On some of this Corbyn is doing well. On others he still has work to do and doesn't always hit the mark. I'm not particularly a Corbyn fan, but I do have new found appreciation and understanding. I get it rather more than I did. I'm sure other centrists probably do a lot more now.

Democracy is much more fragile than we realised and it will take people of all political persuasions in this country to build on that and repair the damage that the referendum - and May's government - have done.

Corbyn next task is to transfer this to the party and remove it from himself. The cult of Corbyn has been useful, but it has problems which should now be tackled. It has to be widened to other Labour MPs.

Ditching the unholy alliance with Trump and lining up along side other European leaders would be another good way to start achieving that. That's a duty that falls to a Tory to perform. Calling off Trumps State Visit would be a first step.

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