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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/06/2017 21:03

As the dust begins to settle after the drama of a result no one really thought would happen though many hoped, we start to wonder what else will happen.

Initially it looked like the best possible result. The trouble is May has decided true to form to be a pain in the backside and not know when to quit. Her trade mark management style to crash forward in a straight through obstacles, taking everything that gets in her way in the process, rather than taking the more sensible and less hazardous route. She has had a nasty habit of come hurdling to an abrupt and painful messy end as she hits an inpenatrable brick wall of law or circumstance.

The idea that she can be moderated in any way is ridiculous, especially if Nick and Fiona survive.

We now have a situation with a minority government and a prime minister with a manifesto full of controversial proposals that will largely be consigned to the bin out of fear of defeat. Her ambitions over human rights are not in the manifesto so an embolden House of Lords will just throw it out without fear – because constitutionally the Salisbury convention only applies to majority governments. She has become a lame duck.

The trouble is that this is a parliament that needs to pass measures because of Brexit. May’s ability to deal with the Great Repeal Act in particular is going to be next to impossible. Certainly with the time already wasted.

May’s insistence that nothing has changed and its business as usual merely adds insult to injury and makes the whole situation worse. It sets her up to fail at some point, but that could well be after she has single handedly lead the country to economic and social disaster. Her lack of understanding of this just shows her up as the poor one trick politician without real leadership skills and vision. It marks her arrogance and lack of respect for those who are her bosses.

She could have acknowledged that the election result was a wholesale rejection of her vision for Brexit and reached out to other parties for a consensus over Brexit she decided to go rushing in bed with the hardline right DUP.

We now have a situation where her loose agreement with the DUP to prop up her government could be in breach of the Good Friday Agreement, further risking instability in that part of the union. It is not only fool hardy, its reckless. Not only that, without a formal agreement in the form of a coalition, such support means the she can not rely on the back up of the Salisbury Convention.

This is also done without irony after vilifying Corbyn for his association with terrorists. It shows a total disregard for the colleagues who the DUP regard as an ‘abomination’ for being gay, especially Ruth Davidson who basically saved her political neck. She really is a political prisoner to their whims and demands. This arrangement with the one that John Major avoided even when he struggled with a minority government because of the problems it would cause. Of course, if you were cynical you might well argue that May wants to break the GFA.

The rest of the party will cowardly let her lurch from crisis to crisis because the like the spine to rid themselves of the problem. Political crisis which involve NI are particularly difficult and particularly risky. May risks constitutional crisis there, with the House of Lords, over our WTO status, with Human Rights of EU and British nationals, a possible no confidence vote and with EU negotiations. That’s just the big ones we can forsee now. Yet she sees herself as the champion of stability in this midst of it all with a staggering lack of self-awareness or brazen disregard. Its like how the GOP tolerate Trump for their Christian agenda, the Hard Brexiteers will tolerate May to get Brexit through in any way they can; though this now opens it up to being even more chaotic unless the liberals stand up to the ever increasing suicide of it. The reality is that the chances of her being able to persuade both the liberal and right wings to agree to the same plan is slim.

The chances of the house of cards simply collapsing and us left with another election are huge.

There is hope. More than a landslide would have brought, but this path is fraught with pitfalls, it is difficult to see May doing anything but charging headlong over a cliff and missing the best way out of this mess. David Davis has admitted that there is now no longer a mandate for hard Brexit and we will need to stay in the Single Market and Customs Union and Greg Clark is summoning business to support the course. There are calls from Sarah Wollaston, Heidi Allen and Yvette Cooper for a cross party approach to key issues. This of course is the last thing that the Wing Nuts – and May - will allow willingly.

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RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 16:31

David Frum‏ @davidfrum
Brexiteers promised 350 million pounds extra PER WEEK for NHS if UK quit EU. They delivered dementia tax instead.

David Frum‏**@davidfrum**
That the winning argument for Brexit was a (deceptive) promise of more govt spending should have been a warning to anti-EU Tories

Faisal Islam‏*@faisalislam*

As I put it to a former Vote Leave staffer working for May at one of the debates: "Corbyn's using your own tactics against you". He nodded

Labour's potential trap. It must deliver buses.

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RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 16:47

Ciaran Jenkins‏*@C4Ciaran*

Ruth Davidson tells #C4News "it's really clear" we need to "look again at the way we approach Brexit."

She's saying this to more than one media outlet. Talking about potentially working with other parties.

Like Yvette.

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Badders123 · 10/06/2017 16:52

Curiouser and curiouser.....

HashiAsLarry · 10/06/2017 17:02

Are the grown ups about to make a coup?

HashiAsLarry · 10/06/2017 17:03

Stage a coup
Not build a home for chickens ffs.
Sorry, sleep deprivation still bitingly!

Badders123 · 10/06/2017 17:06

Well they have been rather like headless chickens of late.....

whatwouldrondo · 10/06/2017 17:07

This line is about Timothy and Hill but sums up May and quite a lot of the Tory Party too, the inconvenient truth and complexity of reality "He added that they exhibited a “desire for total control” and said that “under pressure, it looks like a model that is intolerant of reality” .www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/10/nick-timothy-fiona-hill-resigns-prime-minister-theresa-may-election

WeakAndUnstable · 10/06/2017 17:17

Heidi Allen‏*@heidiallen75* 6m6 minutes ago
Deeply unhappy w idea of a formal coalition w DUP. We should run w minority Gov & work Xparty on big issues. UK demands grown up politics

Badders123 · 10/06/2017 17:19

There are some sane Tories!
Who knew!?

todgerthedodger · 10/06/2017 17:29

But will Heidi do anything about it? Cross the floor?

Badders123 · 10/06/2017 17:29

Phone.in Westminster must be red hot today

TheElementsSong · 10/06/2017 17:30

Just catching up with the thread, thanks for so much interesting food for thought and Shock at everything so far. When did reality turn into a high-stakes political melodrama?

...

Random thought while I was out today:

You know this annoying new trope (seen it on MN as well as in the media) about how 80% of the electorate have voted overwhelmingly for Brexit therefore we need to go harder harder harder (like a pr0n film Hmm)?

For most voters, there was no real option except Red or Blue because of FPTP...

So if Blue had won their "expected" landslide, they'd of course be triumphantly saying the electorate voted overwhelmingly for Brexit...

But if (in fantasyland), Red had won a landslide instead, they'd still be saying the electorate voted overwhelmingly for Brexit...

It's basically the most childish level of "Heads I win, Tails you lose" isn't it?

squoosh · 10/06/2017 17:32

With Nick and Fiona now gone she must feel increasingly vulnerable. She used to pride herself on not having any pals in the party. Bet she wished she'd nurtured a few friendships now.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 10/06/2017 17:41

You know this annoying new trope (seen it on MN as well as in the media) about how 80% of the electorate have voted overwhelmingly for Brexit therefore we need to go harder harder harder (like a pr0n film hmm)?

Christ really

Is that what some dumb nut half wit chuckle head twats think

Fucking hell i need to punch something...and we have only just replaced the doors

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 17:47

After the last week I decided to order a book about propaganda and political communication one of my lecturers who really inspired my thinking on this thread wrote. Much of his work was about war propaganda. He died in 2010 but was a leading voice in this country on the subject and also did training courses for BBC journalists and others in addition to doing undergraduate and post graduate courses. I should have actually bothered to buy it and read it 20 years but me being me, I never did.

Anyway, this book was first published in 1990 and updated in 1995 and 2003 with an epilogue. I have the third addition

The first paragraphs of that read:

In the previous edition of this book, published in 1995, the epilogue began with the start assertion that we are in an age of propaganda. This is even more appropriate to the twenty-first century than to all the other centuries before it, as outlined in this book. But the somewhat optimistic tone in that earlier edition now has to be tempered in the light of the experience of the so-called 'war' against terrorism. Then, the epilogue suggested that there was nothing to fear about either the prominence of propaganda or the necessity of conducting it on behalf of democratic values. The picture is now a little more mixed. I would still maintain that we need more propaganda not less. We need more attempts to arouse our participation in the democratic process, which depends for its survival on public opinion. This is even more the case in light of declining electoral turnouts and the debacle of the 2000 presidential election in the United States. We need more propaganda about issues of universal concern to all human beings, regardless of race, creed, colour or nationality. We need more propaganda to counter the hate-inspired propaganda of certain factions attempting to undermine peaceful co-existence between peoples. This this was not done effectively in certain parts of the world after the end of the Cold War may indeed have been one of the root causes of the 11 September attacks.

Eight years earlier, Walter Lippmann had written:
"Within the life of a generation now in control of affairs, persuasion has become a self-conscious art and a regular organ of popular government... It is no longer... to believe in the original dogma of democracy; that the knowledge needed for the management of human affairs comes up spontaneously from the human heart. Where we act on that the management of human affairs comes up spontaneously from the human heart. Where we act on that theory, we expose ourselves to self-deception, and to forms of persuasion that we cannot verify"

So, in an age of propaganda, the only course of action open to us is to learn to identify it for what it is - merely a process of persuasion that forms a part of everyday life. It can be used for good or ill, just like any other form of communication, but its very pervasiveness in contemporary society is reflective not just of the multiplicity of media but also of the plurality of mediators who exist for getting us to think - and do - something which serves their vested interests.

Those interests may, or may not, coincide with our own. If they do, we tend not to label it as propaganda. They become our shared value system, our common set of 'truths'. It is only when we meet someone from outside this system, whose views of the world are quite different to our own, that we can begin to appreciate that there may be another way of looking at things. We can accept or reject that different way, but we ignore it at our peril. In globalised, communications-rich environment it is unlikely it can be ignored anyway. There are those who equate globalisation with Americanisation, and they don't like it. The attempt in the United States after 9/11 to understand 'why they hate us so much' at times failed to give due emphasis to the enormous amount of support Washington has from around the world in the fight against international terrorism. But the agonising also reflected a failure of American propaganda to project itself as a benign 'force for good in the world'. The Romans hadn't really worried too much about this aspect of their power in the ancient world and nor had the European empires of more recent times. But the communications revolution had changed the environment in which power now had to operate. In its democratic manifestation, it now needed to be explained. It could no longer be left to speak for itself.

It does go on, and covers even more stuff which just echoes so incredibly well with real events but I thought that enough for here.

He smoked like a chimney and was only 56 when he died. I really wonder what he would make of the last year. I was far from a good student not least for the fact I never read this book which was top of the reading list, but I think something must have gone in...

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WeakAndUnstable · 10/06/2017 17:50

It's basically the most childish level of "Heads I win, Tails you lose" isn't it?

Yes...watertight...and then she accidentally drops her flipping coin down the gutter, and has to sell her soul to the devil in orange order to to retrieve it. Nice one Grin

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 17:53

Tom Dobson‏*@tomdobbo*

On the positive side for Timothy and Hill, if they were in House of Cards they'd be dead.

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histinyhandsarefrozen · 10/06/2017 17:55

Ha! Former President of the European Parliament, Martin Schulz, calls the election results a "slap in the face for Theresa May".

Badders123 · 10/06/2017 17:55

😂

OlennasWimple · 10/06/2017 17:57

I'm not sure that N and F can be killed, much like the original Rasputin

pointythings · 10/06/2017 17:57

You know this annoying new trope (seen it on MN as well as in the media) about how 80% of the electorate have voted overwhelmingly for Brexit therefore we need to go harder harder harder (like a pr0n film hmm)?

Well, by that logic in my constituency the sitting MP should not have been returned - we were a Leave area, our MP is a strong remainer. He's still here. For a Tory he's quite a decent bloke.

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 17:59

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-conservative-dup-coalition-formal-cabinet-positions-northern-irish-mps-democratic-a7783741.html
Theresa May considering formal coalition which could mean cabinet positions for DUP MPs
The Government Chief Whip is in Belfast for discussions which include the possibility of formal coalition

TSE‏*@TSEofPB*
The DUP get cabinet jobs? As a lifelong Tory I'd rather see Corbyn as PM than see a coalition with the DUP

What unlucky department is going to get these crack pots?

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pointythings · 10/06/2017 18:02

Education run by the DUP...

squoosh · 10/06/2017 18:10

Cabinet positions for the DUP. Are there any depths she won't plumb. I suspect that might end with a revolt from some Tories.

BiglyBadgers · 10/06/2017 18:11

You know this annoying new trope (seen it on MN as well as in the media) about how 80% of the electorate have voted overwhelmingly for Brexit therefore we need to go harder harder harder (like a pr0n film hmm)?

This is one of those statements that is so patently untrue that the most it deserves is a long hard stare and possibly some Corbyn style side-eye. Some people will never admit that anyone could ever not want the same things as they do despite the very people they are talking about shouting it at them repeatedly.

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