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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/06/2017 21:03

As the dust begins to settle after the drama of a result no one really thought would happen though many hoped, we start to wonder what else will happen.

Initially it looked like the best possible result. The trouble is May has decided true to form to be a pain in the backside and not know when to quit. Her trade mark management style to crash forward in a straight through obstacles, taking everything that gets in her way in the process, rather than taking the more sensible and less hazardous route. She has had a nasty habit of come hurdling to an abrupt and painful messy end as she hits an inpenatrable brick wall of law or circumstance.

The idea that she can be moderated in any way is ridiculous, especially if Nick and Fiona survive.

We now have a situation with a minority government and a prime minister with a manifesto full of controversial proposals that will largely be consigned to the bin out of fear of defeat. Her ambitions over human rights are not in the manifesto so an embolden House of Lords will just throw it out without fear – because constitutionally the Salisbury convention only applies to majority governments. She has become a lame duck.

The trouble is that this is a parliament that needs to pass measures because of Brexit. May’s ability to deal with the Great Repeal Act in particular is going to be next to impossible. Certainly with the time already wasted.

May’s insistence that nothing has changed and its business as usual merely adds insult to injury and makes the whole situation worse. It sets her up to fail at some point, but that could well be after she has single handedly lead the country to economic and social disaster. Her lack of understanding of this just shows her up as the poor one trick politician without real leadership skills and vision. It marks her arrogance and lack of respect for those who are her bosses.

She could have acknowledged that the election result was a wholesale rejection of her vision for Brexit and reached out to other parties for a consensus over Brexit she decided to go rushing in bed with the hardline right DUP.

We now have a situation where her loose agreement with the DUP to prop up her government could be in breach of the Good Friday Agreement, further risking instability in that part of the union. It is not only fool hardy, its reckless. Not only that, without a formal agreement in the form of a coalition, such support means the she can not rely on the back up of the Salisbury Convention.

This is also done without irony after vilifying Corbyn for his association with terrorists. It shows a total disregard for the colleagues who the DUP regard as an ‘abomination’ for being gay, especially Ruth Davidson who basically saved her political neck. She really is a political prisoner to their whims and demands. This arrangement with the one that John Major avoided even when he struggled with a minority government because of the problems it would cause. Of course, if you were cynical you might well argue that May wants to break the GFA.

The rest of the party will cowardly let her lurch from crisis to crisis because the like the spine to rid themselves of the problem. Political crisis which involve NI are particularly difficult and particularly risky. May risks constitutional crisis there, with the House of Lords, over our WTO status, with Human Rights of EU and British nationals, a possible no confidence vote and with EU negotiations. That’s just the big ones we can forsee now. Yet she sees herself as the champion of stability in this midst of it all with a staggering lack of self-awareness or brazen disregard. Its like how the GOP tolerate Trump for their Christian agenda, the Hard Brexiteers will tolerate May to get Brexit through in any way they can; though this now opens it up to being even more chaotic unless the liberals stand up to the ever increasing suicide of it. The reality is that the chances of her being able to persuade both the liberal and right wings to agree to the same plan is slim.

The chances of the house of cards simply collapsing and us left with another election are huge.

There is hope. More than a landslide would have brought, but this path is fraught with pitfalls, it is difficult to see May doing anything but charging headlong over a cliff and missing the best way out of this mess. David Davis has admitted that there is now no longer a mandate for hard Brexit and we will need to stay in the Single Market and Customs Union and Greg Clark is summoning business to support the course. There are calls from Sarah Wollaston, Heidi Allen and Yvette Cooper for a cross party approach to key issues. This of course is the last thing that the Wing Nuts – and May - will allow willingly.

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Thread gallery
33
HashiAsLarry · 10/06/2017 13:47

@thewritertype
It was all the fault of Theresa May’s advisers.
In other news: Sauron blames orcs for fall of Mordor.

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 13:49

Article on Conservative Home is interesting. Timothy says:

Yesterday, I resigned as the Prime Minister’s adviser.

Yesterday? So why has there been so much fuss TODAY with an ultimatum presented to May from senior Cabinet member to get rid of him?

This makes it sound like he made the decision rather than it being down to the Cabinet pressure. That helps May stopping look like she bowed to pressure to force him to go. This helps May's authority.

However it also makes me wonder whether he offered his resignation and May refused to accept it and had been trying to consolidate her power and persuade him to stay.

This would perhaps explain why the Cabinet felt the need to put the pressure on too. It also would suggest May feels a reliance on Timothy. Which is not a good sign for her personally, though better for the state of the country.

An alternative explanation is that the Cabinet were unaware that Timothy had resigned. This also is not good as it shows a lack of communication between the Cabinet and May in the immediate aftermath of the election. This is possible because many ministers had complained about hearing nothing from May.

There is a final explanation. It sounds unlikely they presented an ultimatum knowing that he had resigned to show the power of the Cabinet knowing this undermine May further at a time when she was already in that position and didn't need anymore put on her. Unless this is about trying to force HER to resign too or send a VERY public warning that May's position is not set in stone even under the circumstances and the difficult timing.

This message is important regardless of the reason in the context the number of hard Brexiteers saying we can't get rid of May because of Brexit. It certainly sends the message about it being the Cabinet not the hard right of the party who is in charge.

My point here is this: I would suggest that there is still a battle going on between May and her Cabinet over their authority, and there is a serious question about the relationship and communication between May and her Cabinet.

This isn't just about Timothy and Hill.

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citroenpresse · 10/06/2017 13:52

The three existing Northern Ireland MEPs seem incredibly distant politically (would love to be updated by someone better informed). Jim Nicholson (UUP) in ECR (with most of UK Tory MEPs); Martina Anderson (Sinn Féin - Confederal Group of the European United Left - Nordic Green Left) and the DUP (non-attached) MEP Dianne Dodds. In 2009 Dodds refused to take her seat next to the newly elected British National Party members Andrew Brons and Nick Griffin so a point in her favour, but this is when the BNP polled 943,598 votes (6.2%) entitling them to two seats.

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 13:58

www.democraticaudit.com/2017/06/10/how-groupthink-in-theresa-mays-no-10-led-to-another-round-of-political-chaos/
How groupthink in Theresa May’s No 10 led to another round of political chaos

This article is a REALLY good explanation of May's control and centralisation of power.

The theory of ‘groupthink’ adds a useful extra insight here. First formulated by the psychologist Irving Janis, it specifically applies to tightly knit executive teams composed of a dominating leader and ultra-loyal assistants with a drive to maximise in-group solidarity. Suppose that in a first stage the team accomplished something extremely difficult, as May did in scheming her way to bid for the Conservative leadership. Especially important here was the intra-party arm-twisting of all the other candidates after the Brexit vote, so that she could ascend by coronation instead of having to fight an internal party election.

Janis argued that succeeding in this first stage struggle, against the odds, and with a centralising and controlling leader, then induces in the leadership team a distorted view of their own insights and capabilities. Buoyed up by high morale, contemptuous of ‘outsiders’, and completely discounting any critical feedback received

Article mentions how

  1. May had the biggest Cabinet reshuffle possible, with 21 of 24 new to the role
  2. Reorganised Whitehall departments, so they had to recruit and learn new roles and have had no time to actually do their job.
  3. Anyone 'speaking the truth to power' was driven out of Whitehall. See various officials to the EU, various civil servants and attitudes to Mark Carney. Five out of 18 Permanent Secretaries across Whitehall were replaced. A further 8 Perm Secs were already new to their roles, not having held posts at the 2015 general election so were not well established.
  4. The ability of senior civil servants to give ministers frank advice has been limited by May's insistence of everything going through her (or her advisors) first or because they were being advised by people also learning their job and lacking in experience
  5. Throughout the election there were constant leaks about the various Cabinet ministers were up for the chop in order to keep them in line and illustrate how she was going to dish out power to those loyal only to her.
  6. There was an emphasis on making everything black and white and simple. There was no room for making it more complex because it was about fending off the Kipper threat.

With the things happening today I do think the opportunity for a proper debate now opens up. This brings an end to the idea of 'an enemy' to fight against. It suggests that 'the truth' will now be spoken and civil servants can start doing their job and Cabinet ministers will get advice effectively withheld from them.

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LemonSalad · 10/06/2017 14:01

Huw Lemmey‏ @huwlemmey

Can we at least agree this: that between calling the Brexit referendum, losing the Brexit referendum, calling this election and absolutely
tanking it through unforced errors and basic incapability, the Tory Party has put in the worst performance in British political history?

They absolutely do not deserve to be in power, repeatedly using the economic stability and people's lives as ammo for internal powerplays. And they will only stay in power because they've gerrymandered the system and have the entire weight of British establishment behind them.
They arrogantly assume they are born to power, and even though it is essentially in the bag, they still put in the most incapable and incoherent strategy possible, with a cast of feckless and preening idiots as their main players, and in the process smash 50+ years of relative social/international diplomatic cohesion. They are fucking useless, self-entitled brats and absolutely everyone deserves better.

In little over 5 years they'll have taken the European Union, the Good Friday Agreement and maybe even the Union itself to the brink. A truly appalling and unprecedented record of stupidity, political near-sightedness, cack-handedness, arrogance and self-indulgence.
Are we going to have to add "forced the UK government to renege on the Good Friday Agreement" to this list of Tory achievements?

I have to agree with this little rant - getting more frustrated with British politics by the minute! Might go and do a bit of gardening now, my blood pressure will thank me.

Also sick of all the whole Fiona and Timothy storyline. Yes, they sound awful, but surely picking good advisors, listening to a variety of opinions and knowing your own mind is one of the most basic requirements of decent leadership. Angry

OlennasWimple · 10/06/2017 14:02

So, positives from the election so far (ignoring political preferences):

  • 208 women MPs (highest ever number)
  • 45 openly LGBT MPs (highest ever number)
  • largest youth turn out in recent times (precise % to be confirmed next week)
  • forced interest in NI and what is going on there (am amazed by how many people need the "who are the DUP anyway?" articles)

What else?

OlennasWimple · 10/06/2017 14:09

Having been with someone who received one of Fi Hill's toxic text messages, I used to wonder if JK Rowling had also been a recipient at one time and based the "howler" message on them...

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 14:09

Jim Waterson‏*@jimwaterson*
Our headline from four days ago raises a fair few questions about what happens now these two advisers have quit.

www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/theresa-mays-poor-campaign-has-exposed-her-dependence-on?utm_term=.qrJ3emr17#.igM247Ow6
Theresa May Is So Dependent On Two Key Advisers They Had To Rejoin Government After The Terror Attacks
BuzzFeed News has learned that Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill "temporarily rejoined" the government in the wake of the Manchester and London Bridge attacks. But critics say the PM's reliance on them is damaging her campaign – and her chances of success in government.

From June 6th. 2 days before the election.

Fiona Hill and Nick Timothy stepped down as May’s co-chiefs of staff in Number 10 Downing Street in April to play central roles in the Tory campaign, in line with rules restricting officials’ involvement in elections.

But BuzzFeed News has learned that, at May’s insistence, they were allowed to “temporarily rejoin” the government in the hours after the attack on Manchester and again after the London Bridge attack on Saturday, so they could attend secret intelligence briefings and meetings of the Cobra emergency committee.

Ministers, senior officials, police, and security chiefs were already on hand to advise the prime minister on the government’s response to the attacks, but May wanted her most trusted aides, who have loyally served her since she was home secretary, with her. So they were quietly put back on the government staff. The temporary workaround was cleared by Sue Gray, the powerful Cabinet Office official who acts as the guardian of ethics in Whitehall, because of the extraordinary circumstances.

David Allen Green‏*@davidallengreen*

The anteroom has been cleared.

Now that silence before the knock on the door.

The prime minister sits at the desk, and waits.

Silence.
She thinks.

"My position is very clear...very clear...my position is very clear..."

She gulps.

Her position is indeed clear.

Silence.

The Silence is indeed deafening.

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BirdBandit · 10/06/2017 14:10

Oleena I agree, the renewed public interest is politics has got to be considered a major win, everyone is talking about their values and what they want to see, and our interest has got to be good for keeping an eye on what is happening.

I imagine TM expected everyone to just be uneducated and compliant, and accept the DUP.

LemonSalad · 10/06/2017 14:10

- forced interest in NI and what is going on there (am amazed by how many people need the "who are the DUP anyway?" articles)

Oleanna, have a look at this thread if you want to weep be amazed some more: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2950817-To-think-that-UK-voters-should-be-ashamed-of-their-apathetic-ignorance

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 14:15

Sam Coates Times‏*@SamCoatesTimes*
Boom - Blame Lynton! - the subtext of Nick Timothy's resignation statement

Thomas Penny‏ @ThomasWPenny
That's funny, Lynton seems to briefing "blame Nick"!

That's funny. Blame anyone but May or her Cabinet...

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RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 14:16

Not our fault. Says the Mail.

May and the culture of blame. Still there.
No responsibility.

Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit
Westminstenders: The Continuing Saga of the Prime Minister Who Didn’t Know When to Quit
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illegitimateMortificadospawn · 10/06/2017 14:19

Going back to the posts earlier about the large number of women in leadership roles in politics at the mo, this is worth a read: www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2014/aug/05/fortune-500-companies-crisis-woman-ceo-yahoo-xerox-jc-penny-economy It's a recognised phenomenon with its own term ('glass cliff') and academic research studies. One study I am aware of did - encouragingly - that women can & do succeed in these difficult roles & turn the business around, provided they have access to the right kind of support.

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 14:21

(((Dan Hodges)))‏*@DPJHodges*

Tory MPs are currently in their constituencies, having discussions with association chairs, key supporters. Feedback on May very, very bad.

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RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 14:27

Otto English‏*@Otto*_English
Theresa May is Schrödinger's Prime Minister. Simultaneously in power and out of power.

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citroenpresse · 10/06/2017 14:28

"And the High Priestess said...But Brexit is come upon us, and I must go into battle against the tribes of France, Germany, and sundry other holiday destinations."

The Book of Jeremy Corbyn by Anthony Lane in the New Yorker. v. amusing.

www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-book-of-jeremy-corbyn

ElenaGreco123 · 10/06/2017 14:29

Lemon That thread is shocking. I was not born in the UK, just like that OP and we have media coverage of the marching season every year in my country of birth. (People find it fascinating and sort of medieval.) So it seems some people know about the Orange Order more in Eastern Europe thank in Britain.

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 14:30

Stewart Wood‏*@StewartWood*
There is simply no way the staggering scope, complexity & sensitivities of the Great Repeal Bill can be navigated given the election result.

David Allen Green‏*@davidallengreen*
A good point.

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SapphireStrange · 10/06/2017 14:30

Marking place. Interesting times.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 10/06/2017 14:34

I think my underlying worry about this DUP/Tory deal is how this going to affect the GFA, marching season combined with extra power for the dup, im worried for Ireland this is not a move they need as a country which is suffering just as much as the rest of us with more austerity and brexit on the horizon, fucking shit show of a tory government Angry

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 14:34

David Allen Green‏*@davidallengreen*
Being asked a lot if DUP deal is a breach of Good Friday Agreement.

Preliminary view, fwiw: political issue not a legal(istic) one.

Would say it was a "ecumenical matter" if not singularly inappropriate in the circumstances...

Can't (currently) see a GFA point which (a) could be plausibly litigated and for which (b) there is an adequate judicial remedy.

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Badders123 · 10/06/2017 14:45

Watching Frankie Boyle...
"She does have empathy. For wheat"
😂😂😂

JustAnotherPoster00 · 10/06/2017 14:48

Last week Arlene Foster told an election rally in Derry that a poll on Irish unity should not be allowed because it would destabilise the North. Do you think she was at all conscious of the huge irony in making that comment in a city that suffered more than most under unionism? I suspect not. The leader of political unionism is blind to its faults and to its role in creating and sustaining decades of political instability, injustice, poverty and conflict.
Talk to most unionist representatives about the deep rooted religious and political discrimination that prevailed in Unionism’s apartheid state and they dismiss it out of hand as propaganda. No senior unionist leader has ever accepted any culpability on the part of the state for creating the conditions for years of inter-communal conflict.
What they do instead is frighten their supporters with dire warnings of what equality for nationalists would mean for them. The loss of privilege. The end of dominance. The boot on the other foot. This has been the tried and tested strategy of unionist leaders from the latter part of the nineteenth century. Then as now British Conservatives allied themselves with northern unionists and the Orange Order. At that time it was about opposing a Home Rule Bill being introduced into the British Parliament by Gladstone. Now it’s about pushing through Brexit.
In 1885 the Tories, unionist business class, landed aristocracy, and the Orange Order working together stirred up memories of the conflict resulting from the plantation centuries earlier. They claimed that Home Rule would mean domination by the Catholic Church. It would also bring about, they said, the loss of industrial jobs in Belfast at a time when the northern economy was booming.
This so-called ‘constitutional issue’ – the constitutional connection or Union with Britain - has dominated northern politics since. Every election fought before and since partition has been dominated by this single overriding issue. Rarely do bread and butter matters get raised in northern elections by unionist candidates, except as side issues. The big question is where you stand on the Union. Are you for or against it? And if you are a unionist which party do you believe is more able to protect your interests. Fear of change is exploited mercilessly.
As a political strategy it has proven to be an effective weapon for unionist parties in mobilising and maximising their vote. This week the DUP leader rolled it out again. She told the media launch of her candidates, “At this election, we will seek a mandate for the union that really matters – the union with Great Britain… In recent months, there has been increased noise about the possibility of a united Ireland. Rather than be concerned about that debate we need to seize the moment and positively present the case for the union that matters most to the future prosperity and well being of Northern Ireland – the union between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom.”
However, the Brexit referendum vote last year, the Assembly results in March, and the census conclusions from 2011, are evidence of a shifting demographic and political dynamic in northern politics. Those who defined themselves as ‘British’ in the census were for the first time in almost 100 years a minority in the northern state. The Assembly election saw the hardline unionism of the DUP and UUP lose its majority in the Assembly. The DUP and UUP leaders are mindful of all of this. For that reason they are engaged in a degree of co-operation in several constituencies in the June 8th election.
For the rest of us the Westminster election is an opportunity to challenge the folly of Brexit and demand that the North be designated a special status within the EU. And an opportunity to win more support for the objective of Irish unity.
The contradiction in Arlene Foster’s position now stands exposed. You can’t claim, as the DUP leader does, that she is confident in the pro-union position in the event of a poll on Irish reunification and then deny citizens the opportunity to make a choice. While I would not claim that last June’s remain was a vote for Irish unity, nonetheless 56% of citizens voted to remain within the EU. The figures indicate that a significant section of unionist opinion voted to stay in the EU. The economic arguments warning of the disastrous consequences of Brexit on the northern economy and society obviously had an impact. In this context the decision last week by the EU Council, that in the event of Irish reunification all of Ireland will automatically be in the EU, substantially changes the political dynamic around the question of Irish unity.
There is now a powerful argument, as a result of the threat Brexit poses to communities, to jobs and the economy, which if properly articulated can persuade more and more people that our economic self-interest is best served by an all island approach.
This election is an opportunity to put forward our alternative Republican vision and policy proposals. The outcome will be closely scrutinised. It will shape the talks to re-establish the Executive. It will be seen as another measure of support for the potential of Irish unity.
Sinn Féin currently holds 4 of the 18 seats in the North. There is real potential to increase this. And to build on the Assembly election result. Every vote will count. The deadline for postal and proxy votes is 18 May. The deadline for registration is 22 May.

  • Gerry Adams 13th May 2017
illegitimateMortificadospawn · 10/06/2017 14:48

That HuwLemmey twitter rant that Lemon posted was spot on. Just read it to DH and he agrees. They're an absolute shower of shit. Roll on the autumn!

RedToothBrush · 10/06/2017 14:57

FWIW I do think this an important point:

George Eaton‏*@georgeeaton*
People saying May should have backed "soft Brexit". Would her party have let her?

Brexit was NOT a vote about leaving the EU to everyone. It was a chance to voice concern about the direction of the country and the impact of austerity and the 'left behind'. May initially showed signs of understanding that. But she was high jacked by the Tory Right who made it all about the EU. All the anger about immigrants, the NHS etc etc from the public was voiced in the way they were told to. The thing is these issues still remain and haven't gone away. The Right manufactured it, but haven't been able to maintain it.

The election result is this reality hitting the remain MPs that didn't exercise their judgment in the way they should and didn't push back properly against the 'will of the people' stuff in the papers because they feared the wrath of Murdoch.

Now they realise that they will be punished by the public who don't listen to Murdoch. This is a substantial game changer.

Would Davis have said that we must consider the single market and customs union option without the election?

The tory right are out in force today bleating about how everyone choose hard Brexit because they voted for two parties who supported it. No they didn't. They rejected May's approach to Brexit. This is the first argument that must be rejected. The ability to do this is now there though as people can speak up against the press barons. Corbyn is the first politician who has since forever (?). They want May to stay because they know a change in approach ends chaotic Brexit. It ends the no deal is better than a bad deal mantra. Farage can bleat all he likes. Its done. Gone. More austerity measures can not pass though parliament.

We are lucky. May's decision to call an election brought the inevitable 'reality' moment forward.

Another election this year might bring a Conservative majority but its doubtful. Its also perhaps doubtful that Corbyn could win too though. May won't fight another election. Another conservative PM is a different prospect.

Brexit isn't over but its scope is limited.

The Great Repeal Act as it stood is almost impossible to pass. Even with the prospect of another election, it needs to be started now to work. I think Davis, at least, has worked this out. That's the big take I'm starting to realise.

There had to be a HUGE political crash moment. Lets hope this is it.

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