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Brexit

Westministenders: Election Mayhem

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 18:50

Tick tock, tick tock goes the Brexit Clock.

Don’t panic, just don’t turn up to debates because you have talks starting on the 19th June and have to perfect the 100 page document relating to at least 750 international agreements that need renegotiating before then. Anyone who turns up for their job interview for that, is just wasting time.

If only someone hadn’t called a distracting election.

This election was dubbed to be about Brexit. Yet it is remarkable that we have barely had debate over it. No one wants to admit it really. We nearly got a consensus between Barry Gardiner, Nick Clegg and David Davis over it being a political not economic decision on Question Time on Thursday 1st June, but we are not quite there yet with the admission that the economy is toast. This means the addition money the Conservatives have promised for the NHS won’t be available but we can’t have this discussion. Its properly the fault of purdah. Instead the subject rapidly got skipped over. Instead Davis said that the target May had just set for immigration to be at tens of thousands by 2022 was unrealistic.

In post-election rumour has it that Davis is about to get a promotion to the FCO, whilst Johnson gets the boot. On the other hand Gove is also rumoured for NI and May loyal Gummer gets Brexit.

Meanwhile the 1922 Committee of Tory Backbenchers are said to be plotting the downfall of at least one of May’s guard dogs, Nick Timothy following the decision about the Dementia Tax and subsequent U-Turn. Farage also mentioned Timothy in his statement over the breaking news that the CPS are pressing charges on the Conservative Candidate for South Thanet (the former MP there), his agent and a Tory Party official over election expenses. It seems almost inconceivable that Timothy can survive a traditional Tory Knifing.

This is all as May’s leadership approval ratings are in freefall as the honeymoon is firmly ends, after the public finally got to see her create an army of strawmen as answers, in a barely concealed contempt for the public’s concerns. May’s reaction to a negative reaction? Go back into hiding from media accountability and get the Mail to do her dirty work.

Elsewhere the EU have lined up to criticise Trump over his hard ball attempt to renegotiate the Paris Climate Deal. May was noticeable by her absence as she’s trying the same trick over Brexit and is desperate to keep Trump onside. What is Trump offering us in return? Apart from a Brexit Opportunity to get stiffed.

As for the polls? Despite them, it’s difficult to see the Tories not making a net seat gain. For Labour to do well it relies on widespread tactical voting, young who haven’t previously voted turning out in levels not seen since the 1970s and this being spread across the country and not concentrated in University areas. This will be tough to achieve to simply stop a Tory Landslide, never mind a hung parliament. Labour winning a majority is the stuff of pure fantasy (needs Lab to be 12points ahead of Cons). That said, if the result isn’t much different to the 2015 result, it will beg major questions over May’s leadership and her ability to read the public mood. It will say something about her refusal to engage with ‘the saboteurs’.

Expect an increased Tory Majority but not of the epic scale of 470 they originally were aiming for.

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BigChocFrenzy · 03/06/2017 21:44

YouGov has 18-24 turnout at 51%

Bolshybookworm · 03/06/2017 21:44

It's certainly not boring MrsHoolies!

Despite my dislike of Corbyn, I still want Labour to do well (and the lib dems Sad). I'm going to hope for the best but expect the worst. I think we'll basically end up where we were before although I'm worried that we'll lose a few decent remain MPs along the way.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 03/06/2017 21:46

BigChocFrenzy Survation has it at 75%

RedToothBrush · 03/06/2017 21:47

Pick a poll, any poll!

Matt Singh‏ @MattSingh_
CON leads and changes from last poll:

Survation 1 (-11)
YouGov 4 (+1)
Opinium 6 (-4)
ORB 9 (+3)
ICM 11 (-1)
ComRes 12 (=)

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BigChocFrenzy · 03/06/2017 21:48

Recently the raw figures of the pollsters have been similar
It is all how they weight down Labour - younger, poorer = less likely to vote
and increase Tories.

We don't know whether YouGov and Survation are correct, or the majority of pollsters.

iirc, Survation got the 2015 GE exactly right, but chickened out of publishing because they were different from all the others.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 03/06/2017 21:49

Survation has extremely weighted the young vote this time. Plus it depends where that vote is. Labour strongholds will make absolutely no difference.

Bolshybookworm · 03/06/2017 21:50

I agree on the manifesto, bigchoc, but it's a bit pointless if they can't implement it because people won't vote in their leader.

What worries me is what will happen if ths nutjob hard brexitters keep their seats and the moderate remainers lose theirs. We could conceivably be in a worse position on the 9th June.

I'm feeling very doom and gloom at the moment though (being in a safe hard brexiter seat Sad), so maybe just ignore me!

BigChocFrenzy · 03/06/2017 21:51

Now we see even the swings differ.
Is this because of weighting - they have been changing this again the last 2-3 weeks
Or because their raw figures are now genuinely behaving differently ?

BigChocFrenzy · 03/06/2017 21:55

Nobody knows, but May will be biting nails until 9 June

Corbyn has wildly exceeded expectations
May has performed very badly, which is why this has become a contest at all.
Dreadful campaign and manifesto.

She has given the Tory party palpitations they won't forgive, even if her gamble comes off with a big majority

whatwouldrondo · 03/06/2017 21:58

Young student voters are in my experience deciding where their vote makes the biggest difference. They can then get a postal vote if they are not actually going to be there..... Might perhaps explain why Richmond Park seems a conlean to yougov but not on the ground.

This is weird, not the actual article, but that it is in the Express www.express.co.uk/news/uk/812597/EU-free-trade-Brexit-India-China-economy

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 03/06/2017 22:02

Young student voters are in my experience deciding where their vote makes the biggest difference.

Maybe but anecdotally they are going for what is easier for them and at the moment that is their home constituency.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/06/2017 22:04

Ron The Express published this: Shock
"I speak to Chinese, Indian, Japanese diplomats and they are alarmed because for decades Britain has been the bridge to Europe - a bridge to re-export goods to mainland Europe.
"If that bridge is not there, they tell me - what is the point of Britain?
"They will just move their factories to mainland Europe and not have to pay import tariffs. This will have a massive impact."

woman12345 · 03/06/2017 22:05

Whatever the variation in the polls, none are on a 25% tory lead despite all the financial and political advantages she started with. yy to BCF ^
Are any going up for her?

mathanxiety · 03/06/2017 22:07

waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/06/02/leo-varadkar-becomes-irelands-first-openly-classist-leader/?utm_source=WWN_Facebook_Page&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=Social_Link&utm_content=Article

waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/06/01/varadkar-rushed-to-hospital-after-suspected-contact-with-member-of-the-working-class/

It's satire and it's actually a good deal closer to reality than the hype wrt Varadkar.
Fine Gael takes a lurch back to its origins as the party of big farmers, business and the Blueshirts.

RedToothBrush · 03/06/2017 22:09

Dai Lama‏*@WelshDalaiLama*

Westminster voting intention:

CON: FUCK KNOWS%
LAB: LESS THAN THEM%
LDEM: SINGLE FIGURES%
UKIP: ZERO IS TOO MUCH%

(via guesswork 3 Jun)

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whatwouldrondo · 03/06/2017 22:10

Bigchoc it is the truth but since when has the Express done the truth? Was Desmond not looking over the weekend? Or is s it just that Leavers go glass eyed when you mention trade / business.....

piglet anecdotal too but in constituencies where their vote will make a difference....

woman12345 · 03/06/2017 22:10

Grin math is this the Irish 'onion'?

BigChocFrenzy · 03/06/2017 22:11

Survation – Certain to vote:
18-34: 50%
34-54: 68%
55+ 78%

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 03/06/2017 22:13

piglet anecdotal too but in constituencies where their vote will make a difference

That's the thing though the ones I know could have made a difference if voting in their uni seats (different Labour marginals) instead they are voting in very Tory safe seats.

As Labour voters they have obviously not thought it through.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/06/2017 22:15

I see the last Survation poll was from 2 weeks ago, maybe why the big swing

RedToothBrush · 03/06/2017 22:16

ICM arguing that the high CON lead is from where they calculate the Shy Tories:

Faisal Islam‏*@faisalislam*
ICM explain most clearly how they get to 45%-34% 11 point Con lead, from All Respondent figures of 33%-31% (13% DK)
www.icmunlimited.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017_sunonsunday_poll4_final.pdf
...this is to deal with the Shy Tories etc who apparently like to tell polling companies they dont know who they will & did vote for

Westministenders: Election Mayhem
Westministenders: Election Mayhem
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PigletWasPoohsFriend · 03/06/2017 22:18

Apparently there has been some work done on young voter registrations.

Westministenders: Election Mayhem
Valentine2 · 03/06/2017 22:19

how powerful labour would be right now if they had a proper leader with charisma and mass appeal.

Like that Fuckwit of a war criminal Blair? No thanks!

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 03/06/2017 22:19

It would seem that young voters are disproportionately registered in safe Labour seats.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/06/2017 22:26

The ORB poll was online, but was compared to their last phone poll
However online and phone polls cannot be compared to see trends

Comparing to previous online poll shows a quite different trend:

ORB online
CON 45 (-1)
LAB 36 (+2)