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Brexit

Westministenders – 10 days to go

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/05/2017 11:48

The Maynifesto is out (lets be honest here; other Manifestos are just exercises in dreaming). The rumours of what will happen post Election are in full swing.

The Conservatives are ‘relaunching’ their campaign after Theresa May’s single handed attempt at throwing the election, has needed an intervention.

Yet the reality is that May will win. And win comfortably, increasing her majority. Talk of a Corbyn surge is just that. Talk. He still is more than 5% behind and the excitement about how the gap has closed is getting carried away. Indeed it only helps the Conservatives to get their vote out. Corbyn also started from such a dreadful position, it just makes the effect look more dramatic than it really is and May was always going to struggle to get much more support after the local election peak.

The thing is none of the political parties are covering themselves in glory. No one is offering what people want. In terms of voters not being impressed by their leadership, I don’t think many are really happy and are just going for the best available option out of a particular bad crop. It does not bode well for the future regardless of who wins. We should be worried about the quality of debate and our representatives regardless of who we end up voting for.

Come election night there are going to be some particularly shocking results. The idea that there is a national trend is not right. This election is highly localised in nature. Which will result in these surprises to outsiders but perhaps not locals.

June 9th will make for a lot of soul searching I suspect. For all three parties. There will be leadership questions that remain unanswered and need to be resolved. There are still massive political divides in parties. Heads will roll and need to be replaced. Expectations and the reality have been out of line for all three in one way or another.

Yet all of this is a side show to an extent. Whilst we all scrabble around trying to work it out amongst ourselves, the rest of the world moves forward without us. And the clock ticks.

Merkel has set the tone for the next round of Brexit. It is regarded by the German political elite as ‘Trumpandbrexit’. We are part of the same phenomenon even though many see it through different eyes in this country. This lack of awareness of how we are perceived outside our own walls is something we will face head on at some point and it won’t be good.

Trump himself is up to his neck in scandal. And has risked our safety as a direct result. May might have held her hand but that relationship does not seem to be going well for us. We are between a rock and a hard place and are drifting out to see.

Global Britain has never seemed so lonely and isolated. The rosy future we were promised, becomes ever more a distant dream rather than a dawn of a new age.

Reality will get us in the end.

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TheElementsSong · 02/06/2017 12:08

surely as we go into a GE, the public have a right to know-how much will Brexit costsurely as we go into a GE, the public have a right to know-how much will Brexit cost

Yes exactly!

squoosh · 02/06/2017 12:08

Alfred Wulfric Leyson Pius Rees Mogg
Tom Wentworth Somerset Dunstan Rees Mogg
Peter Theodore Alphege Rees Mogg
Anselm Charles Fitzwilliam Rees Mogg

and

Mary Rees Mogg.

Poor old Mary.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/06/2017 12:09

On WTO - IFF we get our schedules and quota agreed without delay - the UK will compete with the wages of China, India et al - and their working conditions, workers rights, environmental laws.

It's a lovely neoliberal dream that we just need Britannia Unchained from all that pesky regulation

BigChocFrenzy · 02/06/2017 12:11

And financial passporting will be phased out, so the 11-12% GDP and tax provided by the City will have to come from the rest of the population

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 12:14

Bloody hell squoosh. If anyone ever says I've given my son a daft name I shall point them to Moggy.

the UK gets richer because we export more of our higher value goods and services and competitive advantage drives trade rather than beggar thy neighbour race to the bottom of recent times.

About those jobs being relocated to the EU....

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whatwouldrondo · 02/06/2017 12:16

howabout We already export our high value goods and services, look at our trade figures. Hanging outside every embassy and consul in Asia are banners proclaiming our competitive advantage in services, accountancy, marketing, management consultancy, law, and education. Issue is that a good part of our competitive advantage comes from our membership of the EU. The service exporters that I work with, who are already active and successful in Asian markets, are all considering moving part of their activities to the EU and / or Asia in order to maintain that competitive advantage.

Not sure why we bother marketing our education sector on one hand and make the customers a target for control on the other.

woman12345 · 02/06/2017 12:17

Evening Standard.

UK General Election polls: Labour narrows gap again as women and middle-aged voters desert Theresa May.

Women and middle-aged voters are punishing Theresa May following controversies over the “dementia tax” and school meals, an exclusive poll reveals today.

The Ipsos MORI research for the Evening Standard reveals significant shifts to Labour among women and the 35-54 age group — the “pinched generation” juggling caring for ageing parents and their own children.

40%, not bad.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/06/2017 12:17

The immigrants who still come will be more unskilled, those who don't have the choice to go elsewhere.
They'll continue to compete with unskilled Brits

Scientists, doctors, skilled professionals from the E27 have choice where to go - counties where immigrants aren't demonized in the press, when they can stay if they fall in love and get married, where their kids won't face hassle
There has already been a braindrain of British scientists to Germany and elsewhere, which is speeding up

To be fair, the US is good at accepting skilled professionals, wherever they come from. So, that's a good destination for those who worry about language

HashiAsLarry · 02/06/2017 12:18

Ah yes, that high value jam they can't make themselves on the continent.

whatwouldrondo · 02/06/2017 12:18

Banking was obviously in that list but just to underline it is not just banking services we are good at exporting.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/06/2017 12:18

To understand the consequences of a WTO deal / no deal from a longterm Leaver, read Richard North

Peregrina · 02/06/2017 12:20

the UK will compete with the wages of China, India et al - and their working conditions, workers rights, environmental laws.

Both countries which have vast populations. So although the Tories would love to do this, they may find that they can't. Which might just be one blessing and about the only one I could think of.

Kaija · 02/06/2017 12:20

Howabout, that might make sense if we were not so dependent on inward investment which in turn depends on our membership of the single market.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/06/2017 12:24

There is nothing stopping the Uk from exporting to non-EU countries, with the hundreds of bilateral and multilateral arrangements the EU has.
Germany manages to. so do other E27 countries.

Nothing about Brexit will help the UK export more - unless it is slashing wage costs, workers' rights, health & safety, environmental laws...

And of course moving the burden of taxation from corporations to ordinary people. Not even the top 1 or 5% of taxpayers - Tory view is they have to be coddled or they'll leave

whatwouldrondo · 02/06/2017 12:25

Sqoosh Our local Tory Council Leader has three sons and a daughter. Sons were channelled through expensive Preps to Elton and Oxbridge but the daughter had an altogether more relaxed educational experience. He even occasionally tries to claim in cabinet meetings that he considered sending her to one of our local state schools so he can claim some sort of empathy with the stress and unfairness of the process. He is apparently blind to the fact that he is displaying his misogyny for all to see, I mean who wouldn't have Elton and Oxbridge mapped out for the sons and heirs and something else entirely for the mere daughter.....

whatwouldrondo · 02/06/2017 12:29

Actually China is not the country to compete with on wages any more. The rising middle class have higher expectations. They are outsourcing to even cheaper workforces in the poorer countries in the rest of South East Asia, Cambodia, Laos, Burma (sadly set to increase as a direct result of British aid policy) and increasingly African countries.

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 12:34

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/whatever-happened-to-the-brexit-election-1-5045336
Whatever happened to the Brexit election?

In which we admit we were naïve, like Cleggy, in assuming that both the Tories and the Cons would want to discuss this when a couple of months ago, both were haemorrhaging support to the LDs precisely because of Brexit.

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woman12345 · 02/06/2017 12:34

Agree on China, ron. Big disparity in wages there now and growing middle class.

@1000cuts

If women aged 30s/40s are fleeing the Tories for Labour, that says a lot about the success of the Labour and the unions' schoolcuts campaign

NUT ran ads on mn for School Cuts website yesterday.

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 12:36

Gareth Thomas‏ @GarethThomasMP (Labour)
Just heard my Tory oppo banned from doing hustings by Conservative Central Office; putting instructions from her party b4 Harrow residents

Smear or genuine.

What do we believe?

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BigChocFrenzy · 02/06/2017 12:45

If you think the Maybot is along the piss, not bothering to turn up ....

Paul Brand @PaulBrandITV 23h
UKIP's Neil Hamilton, who's standing in Carmarthen East and Dinefwr, tells me he's not yet been to the constituency during the campaign.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/06/2017 12:45

It would be excellent if Wales boot out "Brown Envelope Man"

RedToothBrush · 02/06/2017 12:46

Concern about the NHS is peaking at 61% - the highest for 15 years.

Brexit and the NHS. Always said that the NHS might be one of the few things that could break Brexit somehow.

Maybe that's what's happening.

Westministenders – 10 days to go
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BigChocFrenzy · 02/06/2017 12:47

In next locals of course. I hope he is humiliated and loses his deposit in the GE

BigChocFrenzy · 02/06/2017 12:47

May should have promised that 350 million in her manifesto !

Peregrina · 02/06/2017 12:47

Just heard my Tory oppo banned from doing hustings by Conservative Central Office; putting instructions from her party b4 Harrow residents

Very believable because it's happening all over. Someone has even started a facebook page to log incidents where Tories are refusing to attend hustings.