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Brexit

Westministenders – 10 days to go

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/05/2017 11:48

The Maynifesto is out (lets be honest here; other Manifestos are just exercises in dreaming). The rumours of what will happen post Election are in full swing.

The Conservatives are ‘relaunching’ their campaign after Theresa May’s single handed attempt at throwing the election, has needed an intervention.

Yet the reality is that May will win. And win comfortably, increasing her majority. Talk of a Corbyn surge is just that. Talk. He still is more than 5% behind and the excitement about how the gap has closed is getting carried away. Indeed it only helps the Conservatives to get their vote out. Corbyn also started from such a dreadful position, it just makes the effect look more dramatic than it really is and May was always going to struggle to get much more support after the local election peak.

The thing is none of the political parties are covering themselves in glory. No one is offering what people want. In terms of voters not being impressed by their leadership, I don’t think many are really happy and are just going for the best available option out of a particular bad crop. It does not bode well for the future regardless of who wins. We should be worried about the quality of debate and our representatives regardless of who we end up voting for.

Come election night there are going to be some particularly shocking results. The idea that there is a national trend is not right. This election is highly localised in nature. Which will result in these surprises to outsiders but perhaps not locals.

June 9th will make for a lot of soul searching I suspect. For all three parties. There will be leadership questions that remain unanswered and need to be resolved. There are still massive political divides in parties. Heads will roll and need to be replaced. Expectations and the reality have been out of line for all three in one way or another.

Yet all of this is a side show to an extent. Whilst we all scrabble around trying to work it out amongst ourselves, the rest of the world moves forward without us. And the clock ticks.

Merkel has set the tone for the next round of Brexit. It is regarded by the German political elite as ‘Trumpandbrexit’. We are part of the same phenomenon even though many see it through different eyes in this country. This lack of awareness of how we are perceived outside our own walls is something we will face head on at some point and it won’t be good.

Trump himself is up to his neck in scandal. And has risked our safety as a direct result. May might have held her hand but that relationship does not seem to be going well for us. We are between a rock and a hard place and are drifting out to see.

Global Britain has never seemed so lonely and isolated. The rosy future we were promised, becomes ever more a distant dream rather than a dawn of a new age.

Reality will get us in the end.

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Thread gallery
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Charmageddon · 31/05/2017 15:02

Kezia went up in my estimation when she admirably maintained a total poker face when introduced on Sky News as the Leader of Scottish Labia.

I saw that squoosh Grin

I wondered if it was a dare or a genuine slip!

BigChocFrenzy · 31/05/2017 15:03

Geeks heads-up
Fascinating explanation by YouGov of their GE model with 50,000 panellists and the difference / interaction between this and their standard polls:

They use Multilevel Regression and Post-stratification to produce estimates for small geographical areas, in this case, seats for the GE

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/05/31/how-yougov-model-2017-general-election-works/

Charmageddon · 31/05/2017 15:09

It's def been a completely unpredictable election - Brexit & the NHS were the 2 big things & each party was polarising on those issues I think.

Then the social care policy dented confidence in TM, quickly followed by the Manchester attack which brought police & security & TM as home office leader to the forefront, and masses of confidence was lost.

Jeremy then appeared far more personable & friendly than TM's robotic awkwardness & added to that he's got the underdog & beleaguered victim of bullying media persona getting blanket coverage...

...and now it's all up for grabs ConfusedShock

It could go either way!

RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 15:17

Compare the London Evening Standard First Edition today with the LD's campaign issue of the day.

Then today's editorial is this:
www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-the-liberal-democrats-offer-no-serious-vision-a3553346.html
Evening Standard comment: The Liberal Democrats offer no serious vision

For the most part the editorial it is simply an attack on Tim Farron. If the LDs lack so much vision, why are they both leading today with effectively the same story?

I think this is positioning for 9th June rather than something else. The talk has been that Farron might lose his seat afterall. (Its also been said that Clegg might also be in trouble according to commentators too though).

Trouble brewing in the yellow corner?

Westministenders – 10 days to go
Westministenders – 10 days to go
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RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 15:19

Big Choc, I am awaiting the yougov geek breakdown with baited breathe. I have stuff to do, so I hope its up soon as its making me procrastinate even more than usual!

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RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 15:26

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/31/sensitive-uk-terror-funding-inquiry-findings-may-never-be-published-saudi-arabia?CMP=twt_gu
'Sensitive' UK terror funding inquiry findings 'may never be published'
Investigation into foreign funding and support of jihadi groups operating in UK understood to focus on Saudi Arabia

Sensitive to who exactly?

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squoosh · 31/05/2017 15:26

I wondered if it was a dare or a genuine slip!

It never occurred to me it might be a dare! Grin

Sky News woman had a split second 'oh my fucking God what have I just said?!' look on her face and I can imagine the people in her earpiece were shrieking 'LABOUR NOT LABIA'. She recovered well though.

LurkingHusband · 31/05/2017 15:38

^LH That level of ignorance is astonishing and depressing
How do those people get through life being so unaware of vitally important events and information that definitely will affect their lives^

A lot of people get through life by leaving the big decisions to other people - and are quite happy.

The reason universal suffrage took as long as it did, was in part because for every rabid libertarian, there is an anti-libertarian who not only does not want to take decisions in life, but who also believes other people should just do as they are told. Bear in mind no matter how charged an election, turnout is rarely more than 75%. That's one in four people you pass in the street who are willing to leave whatever happens in their future to God, Starsigns, whatever the winner of BGT says, or anything else. We can't be sure, because they don't vote.

MrsLHs grandmother - despite living through women getting the vote apparently felt it was "unnatural" for women to vote, and disrespectful to their husbands who should be making such decisions. She passed in the early 1970s, but I am sure was not alone.

Remember the start of this election ? That clip of a lady hearing there was to be an election, and her "oh, no not again" reaction ? That's the majority. Anything on this thread is an aberration and a self-selecting echo chamber.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/05/2017 15:46

Angela Rayner : “This prime minister is for turning but not for turning up.” Grin

RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 15:51

Chris Hanretty‏**@chrishanretty**

If #GE2017 is as close as YouGov suggest, it becomes very difficult to make sense of May's local elections. Now, there's no direct relationship between local election share - not event national equivalent vote (NEV) share - and results. But there are ways of modelling the relationship to forecast general elections on the basis of local elex (see report from 2016
@caprosser 's forecast 25 days ago (which does this) had a Cons lead of 16%

Chris Prosser‏**@caprosser**
^Quick #GE2017 forecast using #LE2017 BBC Projected National Shares ([[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0261379415002152method here]]):
Con 43%, Lab 27%, LD 15%, UKIP 6%

Chris Hanretty‏**@chrishanretty**
I just built a slightly different model using log-ratios and came to similar conclusions. If you're looking for an Archimedean point, one not derived from polling, forecasts like this could be a way in. You can, of course, say "it's the campaign". But then these would be very big campaign effects compared to previous elections

Paula Surridge‏*@p*_surridge
Two reasons to think that's poss. Increased voter volatility. Snap election so neither parties nor voters on election footing pre-campaign

Its honestly difficult to see the LDs getting close to 15% this time, at this point in the campaign. I could be wrong, but the way things have gone, anywhere with even a slim chance of there being a change/threat seems to have been narrowing with tactical voting more widespread than usual. As I say this has turned into an anyone but May campaign.

This does seem to very much suggest that voters are seeming to not behave in the way they are supposed to.

Hanretty is surprised by the YouGov poll. I have to say that whilst I think it wrong and overly generous to Lab, I also think that Hanretty perhaps shouldn't be surprised either. When I look at his model (electionforecast) he is suggesting that the Green's lose Caroline Lucas's seat. Personally I think this alone, shows up the problem with models and why they will never be right. They don't add in human psychology.

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RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 15:52

yougov.co.uk/uk-general-election-2017/
You Gov constituency by constituency now live.

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PigletWasPoohsFriend · 31/05/2017 15:54

TNS poll out. Tory 10 point lead.

ElenaGreco123 · 31/05/2017 16:07

Parts if the Yougov polls are rubbish. I had a look at the North Tyneside constituencies. Tynemouth is anything but safe Labour. (If it becomes safe Labour, I shall publicly and happily apologise to Yougov).

HashiAsLarry · 31/05/2017 16:08

As I say this has turned into an anyone but May campaign.
Thanks for a the yougov link, I was hoping wondering how unsafe the Tory seat was here. Very safe indeed, it seems. Nothing much but a suggestion that UKIP losses would return to Labour, and some of the protest vote heading that way too, which we expected Sad If it looked more likely Labour would shaft unseat him, I would have voted that way.

This does seem to very much suggest that voters are seeming to not behave in the way they are supposed to.
I never have done anyway Grin

LurkingHusband · 31/05/2017 16:08

Interesting comment popped up on FB ...

It seems the Tories are being held hostage by the people they bribed in the 80s and 90s ...

RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 16:10

Honestly?

This YouGov seat by seat, isn't awful at all. It IS overly generous to Labour but its showing up local 'twitches' and 'nuisances' better than some of the other polls I've seen.

The toss up list is interesting:
Sheffield Hallam
Bath
Barrow and Furness
Blackpool North and Cleveleys
Carmarthen East and Dinefwr
Gower
South Swindon
Hendon
Carshalton and Wallington
Lewes
Thurrock
Stockton South
Pudsey
Newcastle-under-Lyme
Crewe and Nantwich
Stoke-on-Trent South
High Peak
Oxford West and Abingdon
Edinburgh West
Richmond Park

I'd have put Bury seats blue, but nothing here noticeably that I would reasonably have a huge argument about. And certainly nothing here that makes me raise eyebrows and go "nah!".

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PigletWasPoohsFriend · 31/05/2017 16:13

Parts if the Yougov polls are rubbish. I had a look at the North Tyneside constituencies. Tynemouth is anything but safe Labour.

I agree. They have the Labour seats here as safe. They aren't safe at all. The one that is safe Labour they have as likely switch to Tory. Strange.

Zxyzoey31 · 31/05/2017 16:19

I have looked at the poll and for example they have St Albans as Safe con. St Albans was a massive remain vote, in the top 5 areas of the county. In the 2010 election the con MP only had a 4.2 pt majority over the lib dem candidate. Surely that seat is a bit risky for cons? I recognise that the lib dem vote completely collapsed in 2015 but surely given the high remain vote the seat is risky?

RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 16:24

Re: Tynemouth. I think Safe Labour is generous, but the trend for the NE is to stay redder than other parts of the country and be less affected by the kipper switch than other places.

I think its closer than 'Safe' suggests.

2015
Labour - 25,791 48.2%
Conservative - 17,551 32.8%
UKIP - 6,541 12.2%
Green - 2,017 3.8%
Liberal Democrat - 1,595 3.0%

Tynemouth was apparently 47.8% leave (soon paper a remain area) and there is a Kipper standing which will take away some of the threat from the Cons I would suspect.

What's the student population like? If its high, I would suggest why its going into 'Safe' on YouGov

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Zxyzoey31 · 31/05/2017 16:25

Tynemouth has little student population

RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 16:33

St Albans

2015
Conservative - 25,392 46.6%
Labour - 12,660 23.3%
Liberal Democrat - 10,076 18.5%
UKIP - 4,271 7.8%
Green - 2,034 3.7%

No Kipper candidate. 38% Leave.
Problem it has is that its a split Lib / Lab second place. Off the back of 2010 people might go LD rather than Lab but I don't think its necessarily clear cut as it could be. Kippers should go Cons.

I would say probably tighter than Likely Con, but I'm not convinced that the LDs would edge it. It would have to be a really good local campaign and candidate (not beyond the realms of possibility by any means) But I can see how YouGov have got to that.

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LurkingHusband · 31/05/2017 16:36

www.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/31/the_madness_of_outliers/

Interesting article about polls/polling with a delicious teaser (or should that be "Treezer") at the end ...

If polls keep moving against the Conservatives, a hung parliament is possible – in which case, expect short-term turmoil, and May overtaking Sir Alec Douglas-Home as the shortest serving Prime Minister in modern times. He made it to 363 days. By June 9 she will have served just 331 days.

MangoSplit · 31/05/2017 16:37

Belated place marking

RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 16:40

Tynemouth has little student population

Then I have no idea!

Lord Ashcroft has it with a 65% chance of a Labour win.
Election Forecast has it with an 85% chance of a Labour win.

Likewise for St Albans
Lord Ashcroft has it with a 99% chance of a Con win.
Election Forecast has it with a 100% chance of a Con win.

I really don't think the YouGov prediction for either is controversial.

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squoosh · 31/05/2017 16:47

@PoliticsHome 'Theresa May on Corbyn's debate challenge: “He ought to be paying more attention to thinking abt Brexit negotiations – that’s what I’m doing”'

Then you shouldn't have called a General Election you absolute twit!

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