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Brexit

Westministenders – 10 days to go

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/05/2017 11:48

The Maynifesto is out (lets be honest here; other Manifestos are just exercises in dreaming). The rumours of what will happen post Election are in full swing.

The Conservatives are ‘relaunching’ their campaign after Theresa May’s single handed attempt at throwing the election, has needed an intervention.

Yet the reality is that May will win. And win comfortably, increasing her majority. Talk of a Corbyn surge is just that. Talk. He still is more than 5% behind and the excitement about how the gap has closed is getting carried away. Indeed it only helps the Conservatives to get their vote out. Corbyn also started from such a dreadful position, it just makes the effect look more dramatic than it really is and May was always going to struggle to get much more support after the local election peak.

The thing is none of the political parties are covering themselves in glory. No one is offering what people want. In terms of voters not being impressed by their leadership, I don’t think many are really happy and are just going for the best available option out of a particular bad crop. It does not bode well for the future regardless of who wins. We should be worried about the quality of debate and our representatives regardless of who we end up voting for.

Come election night there are going to be some particularly shocking results. The idea that there is a national trend is not right. This election is highly localised in nature. Which will result in these surprises to outsiders but perhaps not locals.

June 9th will make for a lot of soul searching I suspect. For all three parties. There will be leadership questions that remain unanswered and need to be resolved. There are still massive political divides in parties. Heads will roll and need to be replaced. Expectations and the reality have been out of line for all three in one way or another.

Yet all of this is a side show to an extent. Whilst we all scrabble around trying to work it out amongst ourselves, the rest of the world moves forward without us. And the clock ticks.

Merkel has set the tone for the next round of Brexit. It is regarded by the German political elite as ‘Trumpandbrexit’. We are part of the same phenomenon even though many see it through different eyes in this country. This lack of awareness of how we are perceived outside our own walls is something we will face head on at some point and it won’t be good.

Trump himself is up to his neck in scandal. And has risked our safety as a direct result. May might have held her hand but that relationship does not seem to be going well for us. We are between a rock and a hard place and are drifting out to see.

Global Britain has never seemed so lonely and isolated. The rosy future we were promised, becomes ever more a distant dream rather than a dawn of a new age.

Reality will get us in the end.

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RedToothBrush · 30/05/2017 23:03

AJ‏*@AJDawson01*

Its a constituency proj based on nat stats, huge error margin, massive risk as data hasn't been weighted, (ie everyone votes equally)

See this actually sounds about right.

also

Sam Coates Times‏ @SamCoatesTimes
It's a projection rather than a poll...

Its not a poll. Important difference.

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prettybird · 30/05/2017 23:10

I also remember the panic when one, one poll said that Yes would win in the Indyref (although to be fair, it was on the back of consistently increasing Yes percentages): brought the whole WM establishment up to Scotland and, probably more significantly, created the "Vow" in the Daily Record and brought Brown out of the woodwork to back that Vow up.

Whether it was the supposedly positive message of the Vow or Brown's intervention - which would tie in with RTB's post earlier this thread that voters respond more to positive messages - or that it was apprehension based upon a fear that Yes might win (after all, the Better Together had initially been "Project Fear"), it's difficult to tell.

But personally I do think it had an impact and from my perspective not a positive one Wink

The Times forecast could have a similar galvanising effect on the Conservative vote Hmm

woman12345 · 30/05/2017 23:11

Its not a poll. Important difference
Fair enough. But the direction of travel might be significant.

This Naylor Report seems to be being posted everywhere.

Jan Warner‏ @jwrnr 13m13 minutes ago
Replying to @jwrnr @jonsnowC4 and 2 others
Theresa May supports the Naylor Report which recommends selling off NHS assets @guardian @HuffPostPol @NewStatesman

And NHS choir banned from singing about Hunt's cuts.
www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2017/05/nhs-choir-kicked-stage-singing-about-cuts-in-jeremy-hunt-constituency

RedToothBrush · 30/05/2017 23:15

Just to remind everyone that the Conservative target for this election was 470 seats. It was an ambitious target but it was a real one they thought was possible.

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woman12345 · 30/05/2017 23:21

it was a real one they thought was possible
This might be helping:
^The Electoral Commission is ignoring big money while silencing charities – the Lobbying Act is not fit for purpose.
There is no evidence that the Lobbying Act has done anything to curb the influence of powerful lobby groups stalking the corridors of Westminster. Instead, robust evidence shows that it has silenced campaign groups working on vital issues.
As concern grows about the influence of foreign billionaires and so-called “dark money” on UK elections, you could do worse than wondering what on earth happened to the Transparency and Lobbying Act 2014^
www.independent.co.uk/voices/greenpeace-lobbying-act-fixed-term-parliament-act-civil-liberties-election-spending-a7763541.html

RedToothBrush · 30/05/2017 23:41

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-majority-poll-election-2017-latest-labour-hung-parliament-seats-theresa-may-conservatives-a7764271.html
Tories on track to fall short of ruling majority in general election, says new poll

Andrew Hawkins, the chairman of ComRes, told The Times: “If voters behave in the way they broadly did in 2015 then the Conservatives remain on track for a 100-plus majority. This seems, on present assumptions, the most likely outcome.”

Hmm... Are voters behaving broadly as they did in 2015?

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Cailleach1 · 30/05/2017 23:43

George Osborne is having a whale of a time. Outside the tent piddling in and all that. May really is quite reckless alienating supposed comrades. A bit of nous wouldn't go amiss.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/george-osborne-theresa-may-election-campaign-disastrous-manifesto-history-conservatives-tory-labour-a7763631.html

MitzyLeFrouf · 30/05/2017 23:50

For Osborne revenge isn't just a dish best served cold. It's an ice cold dish served up day after day.

woman12345 · 30/05/2017 23:55

George Osborne is having a whale of a time
Evening Standard headline story: "‘Warm, funny’ Jeremy Corbyn praised for The One Show appearance after Theresa May’s ‘robotic’ interview" Grin
It is a very odd election campaign.

mathanxiety · 31/05/2017 05:51

www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/The_hardest_border
A BBC article on the nuts and bolts of a hard border between NI and Ireland, with footage of darker times.

(Apologies if this has already been posted).

RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 06:29

Jim Pickard @pickardje
A scenario which, through some bizarre anti-alchemy, everyone is a loser in their own distinct way...

About the yougov poll.

He's right and that would sum up this election nicely and my overall feeling about the eventual result. No winners.

Meanwhile Donald trump is unable to complete a tweet. Looks up covfefe in the dictionary

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silkybear · 31/05/2017 06:49

Betfair odds on a labour majority was 26/1 two weeks ago now 18/1 (30/5/17)

HashiAsLarry · 31/05/2017 06:55

Does anyone speak Trump enough to understand what covfefe is meant to mean in actual English?

HashiAsLarry · 31/05/2017 07:12

Dh reckons it's coverage Confused

PattyPenguin · 31/05/2017 07:13

From the context I'm guessing "coverage". Fat little fingers and even autocorrect can't cope.

RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 07:14

It's 'press coverage' whilst either drunk, falling asleep, secretly tweeting and getting busted in the act, losing your concerntration, having Dementia or just being Donald Trump.

Funniest bit is it was sent after most White House staff will have gone to bed, so no one is awake to remove it so the rest of the world and the West Coast are laughing and most of the East Coast has this delight to wake up to yet.

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RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 07:31

Joe Twyman @joetwyman
NB Seat estimates from @YouGov's election model are based on current data. NOT a prediction. More details on website launching tomorrow PM.

Something to look forward to today then ahead of the BBC debate where Amber Rudd will repeat the phrase there is only one poll that matters and that's on the 8 June as if it's not a May-Bot phrase.

Who is looking forward to the 2019 GE btw?

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Peregrina · 31/05/2017 07:46

Amber Rudd will repeat the phrase there is only one poll that matters and that's on the 8 June as if it's not a May-Bot phrase.

One of the few sensible comments from the May camp. It's like the person who told me 'We won the poster battle' when we lost a seat. Fat lot of good it did, it is crosses in the box which matter.

Mistigri · 31/05/2017 07:48

Funniest bit is it was sent after most White House staff will have gone to bed, so no one is awake to remove it so the rest of the world and the West Coast are laughing and most of the East Coast has this delight to wake up to yet.

You would like to think that in the world's wealthiest and most powerful nation, someone somewhere in government would realise what had happened before the entire world had time to take the piss out of it.

It's really astonishing. There are sensible people wondering if it's a sign of something bigger happening and that America will wake up to a new president. I think this is wishful thinking personally but it's not impossible.

We live in a world where nothing is impossible...

BigChocFrenzy · 31/05/2017 07:54

What is the likely results range ?

Hung parliament is the very unlikely worst case for the Tories.

What is their upper limit ?

In 2015, Labour won 212 of their 232 seats with >40% of votes.
All polls agree that their vote share has risen at least 5% since that GE
It is very rare to lose a seat with >45%.

Hence, at most 20 Labour seats should be vulnerable.

Adding say 8 SNP and 2 Liberal seats looks like an upper limit of 30 Tory gains
i.e majority of 72

  • unless the polls are ALL badly wrong /Labour drop a major clanger / some other gamechanger

==> result looks the (wide !) range of hung Parliament to 72 seat Tory majority

Tory sources have consistently said that achieving an 80+ majority is the benchmark for May to achieve the authority she wants over the party.
A majority of say 40 would be a big comedown from the landslide they were expecting.

May must be biting her nails, to chants of "strong & stable", naturally.

Personally, I suspect very different English regional behaviour, with uneven swings, e.g W Midlands going strongly Tory.
Still, it' nice to hope that the nail-biting will replace some of that arrogance with listening to how people are hurting

BiglyBadgers · 31/05/2017 08:02

I enjoyed the yougov poll, but I still think it will a case of the size of the Tory majority not whether they will get one. Still, it is encouraging for those working to reduce the Tory majority. I think if this galvanises the Tories to come out and vote it will also encourage those who are against them just as much. I know some people who are saying they won't bother voting as the Tories are going to win anyway. This might help to make them realise nothing is inevitable.

RedToothBrush · 31/05/2017 08:17

BigChoc I'm currently at about a Tory majority of 80 but I am interested in the yougov seat by seat to see how they are getting to this.

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BigChocFrenzy · 31/05/2017 08:25

Examining that YouGov poll (waiting for more details)

  • Used the huge YouGov panel, in which they have an enormous amount of data on each member

  • Sample size of 50,000 but covers almost all constituencies, so probably averages under 100 in each.
    However, taking a large number of small samples is much more accurate than just one, when grouped together properly.

  • Same model they used in Brexit Ref - which correctly predicted Leave

  • Weighted by age, social class, EU referendum vote, which seat / region

  • BUT what kind of turnout & DK weighting ?

  • Tory seat range 274 - 345, i.e. the quoted 20 seat loss is taking the average

BigChocFrenzy · 31/05/2017 08:30

May will need a thumping majority for the Tory party to forgive her this nail-biter
Otherwise, she'd struggle to last until 2021 for her handover to the shiny new Tory leader

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 31/05/2017 08:36

Something to look forward to today then ahead of the BBC debate where Amber Rudd will repeat the phrase there is only one poll that matters and that's on the 8 June as if it's not a May-Bot phrase.

To be fair she is right.

It is quite amazing how on SM those that have been going on for weeks that polls are all run by Tories and not to believe them, suddenly do.

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