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Brexit

Westministenders – 10 days to go

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/05/2017 11:48

The Maynifesto is out (lets be honest here; other Manifestos are just exercises in dreaming). The rumours of what will happen post Election are in full swing.

The Conservatives are ‘relaunching’ their campaign after Theresa May’s single handed attempt at throwing the election, has needed an intervention.

Yet the reality is that May will win. And win comfortably, increasing her majority. Talk of a Corbyn surge is just that. Talk. He still is more than 5% behind and the excitement about how the gap has closed is getting carried away. Indeed it only helps the Conservatives to get their vote out. Corbyn also started from such a dreadful position, it just makes the effect look more dramatic than it really is and May was always going to struggle to get much more support after the local election peak.

The thing is none of the political parties are covering themselves in glory. No one is offering what people want. In terms of voters not being impressed by their leadership, I don’t think many are really happy and are just going for the best available option out of a particular bad crop. It does not bode well for the future regardless of who wins. We should be worried about the quality of debate and our representatives regardless of who we end up voting for.

Come election night there are going to be some particularly shocking results. The idea that there is a national trend is not right. This election is highly localised in nature. Which will result in these surprises to outsiders but perhaps not locals.

June 9th will make for a lot of soul searching I suspect. For all three parties. There will be leadership questions that remain unanswered and need to be resolved. There are still massive political divides in parties. Heads will roll and need to be replaced. Expectations and the reality have been out of line for all three in one way or another.

Yet all of this is a side show to an extent. Whilst we all scrabble around trying to work it out amongst ourselves, the rest of the world moves forward without us. And the clock ticks.

Merkel has set the tone for the next round of Brexit. It is regarded by the German political elite as ‘Trumpandbrexit’. We are part of the same phenomenon even though many see it through different eyes in this country. This lack of awareness of how we are perceived outside our own walls is something we will face head on at some point and it won’t be good.

Trump himself is up to his neck in scandal. And has risked our safety as a direct result. May might have held her hand but that relationship does not seem to be going well for us. We are between a rock and a hard place and are drifting out to see.

Global Britain has never seemed so lonely and isolated. The rosy future we were promised, becomes ever more a distant dream rather than a dawn of a new age.

Reality will get us in the end.

OP posts:
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PigletWasPoohsFriend · 31/05/2017 08:36

Although Paul Mason still says he doesn't really believe it though.

silkybear · 31/05/2017 08:42
Please share, proof the NHS is being sold
BigChocFrenzy · 31/05/2017 08:44

Polls are a snapshot in time of the views of those who are sufficiently politically engaged and willing to talk.
Also, or some reason, UK polls have much more error than those in France or the US

With the large range of results between different polling orgs, it would be very unwise to believe only those you want to be true.

All polls agree Labour have cut the Tory lead a lot, but we really don't know the real starting point.
Or the regional variations - which imo will be large
Or whether there could be a late swing in any direction

BigChocFrenzy · 31/05/2017 08:50

The Tory media is panicking though.
As with rightwing US media, when they feel threatened, they claim voter fraud is rife - believing this to be among the left or centre naturally

e.g. Telegraph shock / horror headline today "Dead voters given chance to cast ‘ghost’ ballots in general election, prompting fears of mass fraud"

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 31/05/2017 08:53

I actually wonder if this will affect voter turnout.

Tory voters who maybe weren't going to bother as it was a foregone conclusion, now will.

missmoon · 31/05/2017 09:03

The feeling I'm getting is that this is re-energising Labour voters, and tempting some away from the Greens / Labour / UKIP / even moderate Tories. This morning there were several Labour posters up in windows where I live (Tory / Lib Dem two-way contest), I've never seen any before.

missmoon · 31/05/2017 09:06

"Polls are a snapshot in time of the views of those who are sufficiently politically engaged and willing to talk.
Also, or some reason, UK polls have much more error than those in France or the US"

Although to be fair they try to control for this by reweighting the results to generate the national totals (e.g. differential turnout). I think the problem in the UK is the localised nature of the campaigns and tactical voting due to FPTP.

Motheroffourdragons · 31/05/2017 09:07

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PigletWasPoohsFriend · 31/05/2017 09:18

But yes, I think this could actually get all the closet tories out to vote who otherwise might not have.

They were talking about it last night on the local news and interviewing people. They had quite a few on there who were Tory voters but weren't going going to vote because of the social care policy. They said that they will now be voting Tory.

Maybe it's a cunning plan Wink

BiglyBadgers · 31/05/2017 09:27

I think if it has any effect at all it will do so on both sides, so balance out. There is still 8 days to go, a long time in politics right now. I imagine this poll will be forgotten by a the end of the day.

woman12345 · 31/05/2017 09:32

Fortunate that the Labour Party now has our attention though. Today's press conference on public service cuts will be widely shared.

US citizens are now trying to budget for medicine rising 100s of % since abolition of ACA.

Abolition of the NHS is worth a few votes I'm sure.

Motheroffourdragons · 31/05/2017 09:34

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PigletWasPoohsFriend · 31/05/2017 09:39

I have no idea though how it will work if the tories don't get an outright majority - who would they deal with this time around ?

DUP possibly plus LibDems on a case by case basis. Their stance last time was that they would go with the majority party in a coalition.

Charmageddon · 31/05/2017 09:40

I am hoping against hope that Labour don't get in.

However, I'm starting to come round to the idea that maybe a hung parliament wouldn't be the end of the world...

Either a massive Tory majority so they can get on with stuff unfettered, or a Tory/Lab collaboration so the better ideas from both
(a small Tory majority would just have been a waste of time & money).

BiglyBadgers · 31/05/2017 09:42

I can't see any party wanting to form a coalition with the Tories following the example of the Lib Dems. I also find it very unlikely that there would be a "progressive coalition" with all the other parties. Which leaves the conservatives forming a government that has to gain cross party support for anything that needs to go though the commons. There was a time when I would have found a lack of a majority in power a horrifying idea, but I am starting to think it might be just what we need.

Motheroffourdragons · 31/05/2017 09:43

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lalalonglegs · 31/05/2017 09:44

It's what I pray for, Bigly.

Motheroffourdragons · 31/05/2017 09:44

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woman12345 · 31/05/2017 09:45

Tory/Lab collaboration
This labour party does not do deals with that tory party. That's why the currency markets are having a modest breakdown at the prospect. Sadly, these are the fruits of that referendum.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 31/05/2017 09:50

*so maybe 16 seats ? I wouldn't have thought that will be enough.

Depends how many seats LibDems get.

If it is unworkable then there will be another election before the end of the year. please no

Mistigri · 31/05/2017 09:52

On Twitter someone was speculating/ fantasising about a series of hung parliaments and new elections delaying brexit for a few years.

I'd vote for that. The Belgians showed us that you can live without a govt for a surprisingly long time.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/05/2017 10:03

imo concerns over the nhs are playing a major role in the Labour recovery

Despite Leavers, who voted that way for other reasons, claiming that no one believed the 350 million slogan, it seems clear a minority did.

So, some of those would have drifted away from the Tories, especially with concerns about accelerated privatization, as silkybear posted

BigChocFrenzy · 31/05/2017 10:08

I may have to sort out a chocolate hat to eat, but my personal expectation is a Tory majority of about 50

I would love a hung parliament though:
it stops arrogant politicians ramming through decisions like privatization and cuts to disabled benefits

  • anyone claiming the disabled aren't being hit only needs to read some of the threads from Mumsnetters who are experiencing this;
especially concerning is how Universal Credit often cuts the total amount they receive, or delays it for several weeks. Renaming something doesn't prevent someone from noticing they get less money
BigChocFrenzy · 31/05/2017 10:23

Voters think May should spell out Brexit plans more clearly, 68% vs 12%
(ORB poll, 2,046 adults, fieldwork 24-25 May )

From 2015 GE voters that's
CON 59 %
LAB 76%
LDEM 75%

So they don't trust May sufficiently to want to give her a blank cheque

Again age separation - the old seem less distrustful / respectful of authority; the young have been bitten too often ?
Age 18-24 ... 74%
Age 75+ ... 52%